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Modern Propaganda, its usefulness in war, and its effect/reflection on our species.

Author
Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#21 - 2012-07-21 08:02:07 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
It is no surprise when the Minmatar or Gallente resort to using propaganda, but as an Amarrian I much prefer to use the methodology of public relations.


Can I ask you to observe the Amarr broadcast in the first post?

What do you make of it?
Does it resound with you?

Can such a sentiment be captured easily in normal dialogue?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#22 - 2012-07-21 09:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
The Caldari one is merely common quotes, Scope media footage, and random recordings of Capsuleer warships with some music slapped on at the end.

There is nothing authentic about this supposed example of 'Caldari propaganda'.

Shiv Mahon wrote:
Perhaps the most important aspect for me is that each of these reels is authorized by the respective states to demonstrate their separate manifests.

The Gallente reel playes regularly on Gallente State broadcasts, and so on forth for the rest: A tacit approval from all to be thus promoted.


You are incorrect to suggest that this is 'authorized to demonstrate separate manifests'. It is merely authorized to entertain viewers with some pretty pictures and music. There is nothing official about it, not even implied.

A movie shown on entertainment holovision does not mean it is representative of the Caldari State. Neither is this amateur fan video representative of the Caldari State.

Katrina Oniseki

Karkaroph
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-07-21 09:28:09 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
The Caldari one is merely common quotes, Scope media footage, and random recordings of Capsuleer warships with some music slapped on at the end.

There is nothing authentic about this supposed example of 'Caldari propaganda'.

Shiv Mahon wrote:
Perhaps the most important aspect for me is that each of these reels is authorized by the respective states to demonstrate their separate manifests.

The Gallente reel playes regularly on Gallente State broadcasts, and so on forth for the rest: A tacit approval from all to be thus promoted.


You are incorrect to suggest that this is 'authorized to demonstrate separate manifests'. It is merely authorized to entertain viewers with some pretty pictures and music. There is nothing official about it, not even implied.

A movie shown on entertainment holovision does not mean it is representative of the Caldari State. Neither is this amateur fan video representative of the Caldari State.



Propoganda can take many forms, evoke many sentiments. Some are obvious, some subtle.

Here we have the brick-to-face subtlety. Mass media crowd pleasing.

So long as this type of thing is tolerated by the seprate states, I suppose they must be accepted? Concord would not authorize such material without the correct permissions, and I understand the Caldari ministry for external affairs is a monstrously large establishment. Surely a systems-wide broadcast such as this wouldn't slip under the radar?

I have seen these holos broadcast Eve-wide and beyond, and they are easily the most widespread form of propaganda in use today. I think the foundation for this discussion is therefore sound. I believe also the word 'authorized' is in this case justified, although I agree wholeheartedly this type of entertainment is not representative of the Caldari state we all know and love.

A little less humility, a little more grandious spectacularity. Throw in vulgar self indulgence in the self taught notion that might is right. There then is your Caldari culture.



Actually, upon reflection, perhaps this Caldari holoreel is quite effective after all. I feel the need to watch it again and grimace a chuckle.




[i]I have seen so much of it, that truly I know nothing of it, except that it embaces me.

I, Karkaroph.[/i]

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#24 - 2012-07-21 15:42:12 UTC
Karkaroph wrote:

A little less humility, a little more grandious spectacularity. Throw in vulgar self indulgence in the self taught notion that might is right. There then is your Caldari culture.

Actually, upon reflection, perhaps this Caldari holoreel is quite effective after all. I feel the need to watch it again and grimace a chuckle.


And here we see the real reason for your post. Cute little remarks laced with insulting hyperbole. You're not actually arguing that it's a valid or authentic representation of Caldari propaganda. You're just arguing for the sake of stirring up the pot.

I would bother addressing the rest of your statement, except you've shown your hand already with that.

Please feel free to continue the role of a fool. You do make such a good impression.

Katrina Oniseki

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-07-21 15:58:57 UTC
Karkaroph wrote:
Concord would not authorize such material without the correct permissions...


CONCORD does not require authorization from any body to release information. Propaganda is often most powerful when it is not authorized by those it supposedly speaks for or against.

Karkaroph wrote:
A little less humility, a little more grandious spectacularity. Throw in vulgar self indulgence in the self taught notion that might is right. There then is your Caldari culture.


It saddens me to point out to you the shame in this sentiment. You take it upon yourself to explain Caldari culture to a Caldari and do so with judgment and hostility rather than a desire to understand. In fact, I am quite baffled as to where you get this impression from the Caldari, they have never struck me as being overly concerned with displays of grandeur or spectacle and "might makes right" is more often attributed to the Amarr than the Caldari. (Though it is also incorrect in our case).

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2012-07-21 17:11:04 UTC
CONCORD has no more to do with how nations regulate their own internal broadcastings, propaganda or not, than how many taxes they choose to apply on the trading of onions.
Karkaroph
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-07-21 18:35:53 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Karkaroph wrote:

A little less humility, a little more grandious spectacularity. Throw in vulgar self indulgence in the self taught notion that might is right. There then is your Caldari culture.

Actually, upon reflection, perhaps this Caldari holoreel is quite effective after all. I feel the need to watch it again and grimace a chuckle.


And here we see the real reason for your post. Cute little remarks laced with insulting hyperbole. You're not actually arguing that it's a valid or authentic representation of Caldari propaganda. You're just arguing for the sake of stirring up the pot.

I would bother addressing the rest of your statement, except you've shown your hand already with that.

Please feel free to continue the role of a fool. You do make such a good impression.




My sincere apologies,

I fear my humorous sense has grown morbid and inaccurate in the years - it is no longer the rapier wit I once considered it, but rather a bludgeoning buffoonery.

Would you believe me if I said I meant only to jest lightheartedly. to spar as it were, in an attempt to reach a jovial war of words.

I am in earnest., yet see how far off the mark I directed my humor, and pity an old fool.




In truth my memories of the Caldari have been mostly fond. I have never engaged in conflict against them as a people or mindset, I have simply come to believe that eventually, perhaps inevitably, we shall have a falling out over ideologies.

Also. Perhaps humor?


I bow in humility and retire from the young lady's post, whom I hope shall forgive me for diverting it so far from its purpose.


Karkaroph.









[i]I have seen so much of it, that truly I know nothing of it, except that it embaces me.

I, Karkaroph.[/i]

Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#28 - 2012-07-21 18:53:10 UTC
To the above poster. Please use less spaces. No need to take up half a page all by yourself.

Apologies for the de-rail.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#29 - 2012-07-21 18:55:26 UTC
I suppose I can just wait for the movie, I guess.
Rogue Integer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-07-22 03:44:29 UTC
Shiv Mahon wrote:
Can I ask what you think of the media I included? Do you see anything positive with it? Anything aesthetically appealing?

I'm curious as to its effect on Capsuleers: Whether there is any merit to this type of message being aimed at them.

Are we too aloof to be swayed? I find I am not.


It does little for me, mostly because I didn't grow up in any of those four nations and generally don't approve of nationalist patriotism and jingoistic thought patterns.
Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#31 - 2012-07-23 18:31:40 UTC
Rogue Integer wrote:

It does little for me, mostly because I didn't grow up in any of those four nations and generally don't approve of nationalist patriotism and jingoistic thought patterns.


What would appeal to you Mr Integer? What would it take to affect your sensibilities?
Damsa Desirah
The Tourniquet Group
#32 - 2012-07-23 20:20:26 UTC
The nature of these holos took me by surprise. I am something of a walking contradiction.

I am Khanid by birthright, heir to my father's small vassalship on the planet where I was born. Though by choice, I am apart of a great legacy, fighting side by side with Ushra'Khan. The holos for the Amarr and the Matar moved me because I still thank the Empress everyday that I had the chance to become a capsuleer to make my own destiny. I also thank Her everyday for the victories I claims against my Amarrian brother and sisters.

I suppose I can't really explain why they both move me.... They just do.

It's not what your Alliance can do for you... It's what you can do to them before they realize you really work for the almighty WormHole God, BoB...

Rogue Integer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-07-24 03:48:48 UTC
Shiv Mahon wrote:
Rogue Integer wrote:

It does little for me, mostly because I didn't grow up in any of those four nations and generally don't approve of nationalist patriotism and jingoistic thought patterns.


What would appeal to you Mr Integer? What would it take to affect your sensibilities?


Outside of the personal? Show me the potential for knowledge, discovery, and transcendence. Show me the limitless possibility of information and the transformative power of science. Show me how we can work together to build something our ancestors could never even have imagined and the universe has never seen.

Show me those things, and I will bring to bear every resource I can muster for your cause.
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