EVE General Discussion

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This is the very reason why some cannot compute how alts are closely tied to P2W. For them, EvE is F2P, since they have got that ball of isk rolling, and alt usage is just another ingame option to prove their worth by not paying RL money for it.
While their point of view is understandable, if a little sad, for reasons aforementioned, question remains:

- What of this game for people who just want to play it as a game, not a benchmark for their personal ability? Are alts mandatory for them as well?
-If said alts aren't mandatory, how can a single person be on an even playfield, as an alt-using one, through ingame options, as exposed there (link)?
- If a non-alt using person shouldn't be on an even-playfield as an alt-using one, what does it say about alts and P2W?
- If a non-alt using person shouldn't be on an even-playfield as an alt-using one, but alts are free because EvE is F2P for the good player, what does it say about EvE being more than just an mmorpg, but really a competitive, money-rewarding game?
- If EvE is really a competitive, money-rewarding game, can the casual playerbase have access to a non F2P, non P2W server, where people could just have fun play pretending pod pilots, instead of being in a competitive, money-centered environmnent where the game has just become a tool for benchmarking one's personal worth?


And, as always, since EFT has so generously graced y'all with this the juicy fruit of his ripe thoughts, he will of course not respond to snips and quotes, but will expect you to behave and discuss like grown human beings, that is, to properly construct sentences and paragraphs around your own ideas.

Bored now.

You need to come up with a better schtick, this one is getting old.

Rehashing the same nonsense that has been squashed many times over, ignoring the pertinent issues when the flaws in your arguments are made apparent and flipping to controversial red herrings... then cycling the discussion back again with the same tired arguments, it's getting old.

Either find a new topic to troll or come up with a better routine.

You're not going to break out of your ranking as a strictly B list troll with mindless repetition.

How is that a strawman?



Static scouting, offgrid boosting at a tower, semi-afk hauling, for example, are tasks which require full attention, precision, quick reflexes, and control?
When you assign on-grid combat pilots to such tasks, they also stay on grid as combat pilots?




How can they bring more people, if they cannot bring more?

Given equal numbers of equally skilled players on each side, which side will win, the one using alts, or the one without?




How can a solo alt-less player unable to get ingame help from friends, get, through ingame means, an even playfield vs a solo player funding alts? Are alts mandatory?

How can numbers be gotten through other means, when there are no other means, as proved in the link?

Also, update your drivel. I now believe that alts are F2P

Because your rhetorical question doesn't answer or replicate the point I was making. Instead, it sets up a different position and attacks that instead. It's a textbook example of a strawman.

So: would you like to respond to the point I actually made instead?

By making sure they can bring more. Their choice not to obtain the numerical advantage doesn't mean there is no option to get more numbers.

So, that's a resounding “no” then. Good, that makes it the second time we've established that you cannot think of even a single advantage that can only be had by paying for it. I feel it's pretty much set in stone by now and you can stop pretending that anything of the sort exists.

We can therefore safely conclude that there is no P2W — anything you pay for can also be had without paying for it. If paying does not provide any special advantage, it's not really P2W, now is it?

So, that's a resounding “no” then. Good, that makes it the second time we've established that you cannot think of even a single advantage that can only be had by paying for it. I feel it's pretty much set in stone by now and you can stop pretending that anything of the sort exists.

We can therefore safely conclude that there is no P2W — anything you pay for can also be had without paying for it. If paying does not provide any special advantage, it's not really P2W, now is it?[/quote]


But there's a lot of P2W pertaining issues existing, and cases in which advantages cannot be had any other way than in a P2W-related way.

However, I can even argue that alts are not at all P2W, and that they are really F2P.

Can you deal with it?

Can't believe this conversation is still going.

The game has been pay to win for years.
You can take cash, and convert it to isk, and buy anything, including alts with it.
You can run multiple accounts off the same keyboard and have them respond identically.

This all means that cash can give you an advantage over other players....Pay2Win.....

/End Discussion

But then again, I've plainly proven that alts are very much mandatory sometimes

However, I have no problem with EvE being F2P, and alts too, therefore.

Can you address anything of this all?

…except that you didn't prove anything of the kind. At no point in all that nonsense did you show any kind of problem that could only be solved by using alts.

I addressed it when you first wrote it and it's as irrelevant and incorrect now as it was back then.

The simple fact remains: you cannot show any kind of advantage that can only be had by paying for it.

No. You offered a strawman argument in the form of a rhetorical question that didn't address or replicate the point I was making: that ships flown actively are more efficient than if relegated to a background task.

Would you like to respond to this point or make a completely different one?

Find more people to bring. Find better equipment. Fly better. Get higher (or just different) skills. All of these can be used to gain the same kind of advantages provided by alts.

1: You really shouldn't call people liars when you are so clearly mistaken, as so many have pointed out time and again.

2: You have been preempted by the Alliance Tournament, and nobody else is paying much attention to your ranting. Well, aside from Tippia, because he likes playing with his food.

It's all there



Options aren't equal, just like posters. Some of them will present arguments and well put-thoughts, others will just be rancid trolls and only use stylistic devices. Which of those are the most useful for a forum?

Given equal numbers of equally skilled players on each side, which side will win, the one using alts, or the one without?

Do skill and equipment, given equal numbers of equally skilled players on each side, one with alts, one without, successfully trump or at least give the same advantage as offgrid boosting alts, falcon alts, static scout alts give?

However, EvE is really F2P