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Author
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#41 - 2012-07-20 22:05:38 UTC
Longer range and a covops would fix it.

That or the removal of nullsec local channels.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#42 - 2012-07-21 06:25:51 UTC
Oh, and allow the lighting of covert cynos and bridging-to in hisec.

Just...well, just because. Twisted

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-07-21 09:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!

Enough said!
Ms Kat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-07-21 09:16:59 UTC
Lets see.


Another concept abandoned to go send stupid modles up tied to balloons... GG CCp GG!!
Ms Kat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-07-21 09:17:32 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!






you obviously know nothing about BLOPS please biomass
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-21 09:21:51 UTC
Ms Kat wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!






you obviously know nothing about BLOPS please biomass



lol
Is BE capable of a great efficinecy at it? Yes or No? Answer is obviously Yes.
So, remind me who does not know anothing about blops again Lol
Just cos you suck at it, does not mean blops are crap
Hemmo Paskiainen
#47 - 2012-07-21 10:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Andrea Roche wrote:
Ms Kat wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!






you obviously know nothing about BLOPS please biomass



lol
Is BE capable of a great efficinecy at it? Yes or No? Answer is obviously Yes.
So, remind me who does not know anothing about blops again Lol
Just cos you suck at it, does not mean blops are crap

roche you are a rly big troll, pls donr steamwalls in my polite topic and troll the **** out of people. The are in need of revision. It doesnt realy mean that if a group used it efficienty its a pro ship. It mean merly that be knows how to use it and pich the right fights with enough ppl. You should check my panther kills, i have super efficienty and im not even using guns! :p and also, why are they always using redeemers an widows and hardly never sins? ... You cant rly judsay bo or god or bad as the differance between them ishugh... One of the resons i trained them all & to l5, i guess theres nothing wrong having 6 bo in my hangar :p

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-07-21 11:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Ms Kat wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!






you obviously know nothing about BLOPS please biomass



lol
Is BE capable of a great efficinecy at it? Yes or No? Answer is obviously Yes.
So, remind me who does not know anothing about blops again Lol
Just cos you suck at it, does not mean blops are crap

roche you are a rly big troll, pls donr steamwalls in my polite topic and troll the **** out of people. The are in need of revision. It doesnt realy mean that if a group used it efficienty its a pro ship. It mean merly that be knows how to use it and pich the right fights with enough ppl. You should check my panther kills, i have super efficienty and im not even using guns! :p and also, why are they always using redeemers an widows and hardly never sins? ... You cant rly judsay bo or god or bad as the differance between them ishugh... One of the resons i trained them all & to l5, i guess theres nothing wrong having 6 bo in my hangar :p


there is no trolling in what i said. I simply stated the fact!
And they dont always use redeemers. They also use sins and i have seen them using widows and panthers too.

Granted they are not as common as the redeemer. But you can also say the same for any ship class. There are always ships out there that are better than others and you have to cross train.

Cross train is a must. All my characters are cross trained across all races. Even now with all the buff, you still see people using the old ships and very few have switched to the buffed ships. Its an inherent part of eve cos there are simply things that work better than others in certain situations. You cant take a ship and expect it to work as good as the others in the same situations.

Ask yourself this question. Should all ships be expected to do as good as the others withing the same ship class? THATS IS NOT EVE and never has been! Why are other faction ships not used as much as others? Why are some carriers used more than others? Why are some supers used much more than others? Why some t3 crusers used more than others? Its all down to situations and tactics.

Also you should check out RK. They are good at fielding efficiently widows and getting nice kills. They are effectivly shown that widows can be used with different tactics.

Also i hav seen videos of solo panthers and you claim also to do well using panthers. Its all down to tactics and how you use them. They do not suck! It only means some are better than others in some situations.

Within the first 3 pages there is at least 5 people that have said that black ops do well atm. So is that means they are ALL trolls or do they happen to agree that they dont need a buff? Its not a troll, its a fact and the stats support it.

Check this out.
http://www.cyno.psych-corp.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=29294
I dont know exactly whats their strategy here thought. Maybe they know something we dont know or they simly have the balls to do it anyway. Well done by Suddenly Spaceships XD. I got to admit I love this alliance name
Master Tron
Axis.
#49 - 2012-07-21 14:22:25 UTC
As a everyday black ops pilot this ship needs more love.
You have my support on this matter.

Black Ops should have:

- Larger Fuel Bay
- Bridge recons and t3 amount should be lower
- Increased ly

Does Black Ops needs Covert cloak ?

My answer is NO, as they are atm is perfect. Having covert cloak makes them too powerful.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#50 - 2012-07-21 14:22:34 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:

Ask yourself this question. Should all ships be expected to do as good as the others withing the same ship class? THATS IS NOT EVE and never has been! Why are other faction ships not used as much as others? Why are some carriers used more than others? Why are some supers used much more than others? Why some t3 crusers used more than others? Its all down to situations and tactics.

Also you should check out RK. They are good at fielding efficiently widows and getting nice kills. They are effectivly shown that widows can be used with different tactics.

Also i hav seen videos of solo panthers and you claim also to do well using panthers. Its all down to tactics and how you use them. They do not suck! It only means some are better than others in some situations.

Within the first 3 pages there is at least 5 people that have said that black ops do well atm. So is that means they are ALL trolls or do they happen to agree that they dont need a buff? Its not a troll, its a fact and the stats support it.

Check this out.
http://www.cyno.psych-corp.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=29294
I dont know exactly whats their strategy here thought. Maybe they know something we dont know or they simly have the balls to do it anyway. Well done by Suddenly Spaceships XD. I got to admit I love this alliance name


LOL, so you think;
the sin is a good ship?
10 ppl finding it not needed to balance is representive
blobbing 2 maurauders with 15 BO is making them fine?

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#51 - 2012-07-21 14:33:42 UTC
Master Tron wrote:
As a everyday black ops pilot this ship needs more love.
You have my support on this matter.

Black Ops should have:

- Larger Fuel Bay
- Bridge recons and t3 amount should be lower
- Increased ly

Does Black Ops needs Covert cloak ?

My answer is NO, as they are atm is perfect. Having covert cloak makes them too powerful.


QFT

Their mobility is what's screwing them at the moment, having to bring several cloaky haulers along just to move a few jumps is lame. There is nothing wrong with the ships, just the fuel requirements.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-07-21 14:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:

Ask yourself this question. Should all ships be expected to do as good as the others withing the same ship class? THATS IS NOT EVE and never has been! Why are other faction ships not used as much as others? Why are some carriers used more than others? Why are some supers used much more than others? Why some t3 crusers used more than others? Its all down to situations and tactics.

Also you should check out RK. They are good at fielding efficiently widows and getting nice kills. They are effectivly shown that widows can be used with different tactics.

Also i hav seen videos of solo panthers and you claim also to do well using panthers. Its all down to tactics and how you use them. They do not suck! It only means some are better than others in some situations.

Within the first 3 pages there is at least 5 people that have said that black ops do well atm. So is that means they are ALL trolls or do they happen to agree that they dont need a buff? Its not a troll, its a fact and the stats support it.

Check this out.
http://www.cyno.psych-corp.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=29294
I dont know exactly whats their strategy here thought. Maybe they know something we dont know or they simly have the balls to do it anyway. Well done by Suddenly Spaceships XD. I got to admit I love this alliance name


LOL, so you think;
the sin is a good ship?
10 ppl finding it not needed to balance is representive
blobbing 2 maurauders with 15 BO is making them fine?



I do think the Sin is ok ship. Granted, it does not have the dps as the rest but that does not mean its not good. Its just is not as good as the rest. But every ship class in eve has the same. Some are good some are not as good. Even with carriers, supers, faction ships, t3 cruisers, battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers etc. In every ship class its the same story repeats.

Thats what blackops are really used for. its all about hot drop, kill and jump out.
They are not "really" meant vs large numbers BUT some entities like BE and others do hot drop vs 6 and even greater numbers. The truth been said, black ops are hit and run tactics and demoralising the enemy. They are not for POS attack or massive vs massive fleet fights. Thats not their intention.

The people that understand this, are very effective with them and the people that dont are bad at it. AAA has never been known for their ability to use black ops. "Maybe" when BE was part of them but that was long ago. This does not mean ofcource that they havent tried it, but you get my point!

Yes, black ops require high fuel consumption but they are small and can be cyno'd to a jammed system. This feature is really good. Their spider tanking ability to remote rep with drones and some remote repers or internal reppers as well as their ability to jump systems is a really good ability. They are not the muscle but a very effective herassment/snipping tool.

I must say thought, if i had the ability to move even MORE freely than now by having a much large jump range and a much lower fuel consumption, wouldnt i spend the whole day hot dropping everyone knowing that the chances of getting killed this way are lower and i can get a decent amout of kills? The answer is yes. But then everyone in eve will start doing the same thing and the game would turn into a terribly bad game! The only thing that keep this in check is, thats hard to pull due to the need for fuel and jump range. Otherwise i wouldnt even want to see eve after a few months and everyone trains black ops.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#53 - 2012-07-21 14:46:01 UTC
They need a greater LY range, a much larger fuel bay, and reduced fuel usage.
Razor Rocker
Super Mother Fan Club
#54 - 2012-07-21 14:58:04 UTC
Master Tron wrote:
As a everyday black ops pilot this ship needs more love.
You have my support on this matter.

Black Ops should have:

- Larger Fuel Bay
- Bridge recons and t3 amount should be lower
- Increased ly

Does Black Ops needs Covert cloak ?

My answer is NO, as they are atm is perfect. Having covert cloak makes them too powerful.



agree completely with this. Covert Ops cloaks are not needed, although it be nice not to erase the scan res penalty from cloaking devices.

Having to have 1-2 cloaky haulers and BO with cargo expanders for a deep insertion (lol) seems rather silly to me.

the dps and tank of the BO is fine. But I'd love to see people using BO more.

Another neat perk, which I think will probably make them OP, is having each have an ewar bonus. So a redeemer with a neuting bonus, panther with a web bonus and sin with a pointing range bonus. This would eliminate the need for recons on the fleet.

in the end, improve the BO in nearly any way and ill be happy.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-07-21 15:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Razor Rocker wrote:


Another neat perk, which I think will probably make them OP, is having each have an ewar bonus. So a redeemer with a neuting bonus, panther with a web bonus and sin with a pointing range bonus. This would eliminate the need for recons on the fleet.



the idea of removing the need for recons in the fleet is troubling.
I mean recons is a wonderfull way to participate in black ops fleets as you are training into blackops as well as when you dont want to train to black ops but just want to participate in it. Also recons do very well in black ops fleets.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-07-21 16:35:26 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
give them covert op cloaking device, then all will be good.



People will hate you for that comment.

But really, the only thing that would allow BO to do that they can't already is warp cloaked. Which every other ship in a BO gang can do.

It would also allow CCP to remove the cloaked velocity bonus, and replace it with something useful. Like a combat bonus, so it can do something besides open bridges. Or a fuel consumption bonus, so you can take the gang further out. Or something, anything, other than a bonus that just what you can already do with a module that the ship is fitting anyway.


A just a couple small changes like this would be nice. Covert cloak so they can warp around systems with their gang and, as you say, remove the speed bonus but - do it fully.

Entirely replace the ship skill bonus with fuel conservation and range bonuses based upon Black Ops skills.

5% fuel savings per level, 10% bonus to the base LY jump range. That maxes at 25% fuel savings and 3 LY base jump range at BO 5.

Net effect would be a range out to 6.75 LY with the ability to move ships more efficiently. 50% farther than they can go now - and using less fuel for the ships. Fuel use? For a bomber, at 5 BO, would be 300 fuel vs 400 and a recon/Blockade runner would be 1875 vs 2500. "nice" savings but you'd give up a small agility bonus (woopie)...

I think it'd make them much more appealing and functional while still keeping them outside the solo-pwnzj00 mobile that some want.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#57 - 2012-07-21 16:51:07 UTC
Ironic the "Black Ops" ship, which Black Ops implies bad assed is in actuality nothing more than a kind of jump gate industrial.

Tank sucks...
Clock sucks...
DPS sucks...

See, it is a jump gate industrial with a bad assed name.

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-07-21 17:16:11 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Ironic the "Black Ops" ship, which Black Ops implies bad assed is in actuality nothing more than a kind of jump gate industrial.

Tank sucks...
Clock sucks...
DPS sucks...

See, it is a jump gate industrial with a bad assed name.


you defenetly dont know what you are talking about regarding black ops.
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-07-21 17:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Medarr
Chribba wrote:
ABRACADABSTRACTART wrote:
Chribba wrote:
ABRACADABSTRACTART wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Do want longer LY range.

I can't help but wonder why, Mr. Total Pacifist. Someone has pvp alts...

Nope sorry no PVP alt. Only for the sake of being able to open a Black portal covering Emperor station in Amarr haha since it's just outside range atm X

sometimes I wonder if you're a Frog. The Big one.

I don't even know what that means.

Am I ugly? Will I turn into a prince? Can I jump far? I die if you cover my pores?(that's probably true tho) (I gotta get out of this basement)


Obligatory RL pic

you know theres things like girls out there right.. they kinda function like mintchip does... They are deffo worth getting into..

* grins *

Sorry Chribba to good a opertunity to pass up on...
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#60 - 2012-07-21 18:05:02 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!

Enough said!


Obvious troll is far too obvious.

1/10.

Keep practising!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.