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Drake vs. Raven with lowish SP
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Betrinna Cantis
#21 - 2012-07-09 21:09:02 UTC
Metolz wrote:
I can't afford a navy battleship immediately though maybe I could after a couple weeks.

I just don't want to be stuck with mediocrity for a prolonged period and it sounds a bit like that's what it would be like for me to start flying a raven without maxed skills. I think the best thing for me to do now is start maxing my general missile skills and maybe better drake fittings, with a view to a tengu while i train and earn for it. Though i'd still be scared of losing it.

My suggestion would be to get as good as you can be in a Drake before moving on. The Drake is fully capable of doing level 4 missions with not uber missiles skills. It's all about the tank. So are battleships. Something to think about.......

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#22 - 2012-07-09 22:24:04 UTC
Went from drake Somewhat OKish skills into a rattler, trained it up to 2200 omnitank 500~ DPS with another 6 months left for perfect skills, but when im done, Caldari and Gallante everything opens up, from dreads to T2 cruisers of every sort.

Perfect Drone and Shield skills go a very long way if you have the patience.
Jaffster
13.
Enigma Project
#23 - 2012-07-10 09:44:43 UTC
Nobody has mentioned the Golem.

I fly a Tengu and Golem, both are docked in my mission station.

I use the Tengu for 1 or 2 of the missions, missions that aren't so much about killing but more about travelling a ridiculous amount of distance to the gates.

The Golem does twice the damage, I kill Battleships in 2-3 volleys, Battlecruisers in 1-2, Frigates/destroyers are dealt with by my drones but with 2 target painters I can usually kill these in 1-2 volleys also.

Javelin Torpedoes mean I can hit out to 57km with Level 5 skills in velocity/flight time modifiers, if needed.

The tank is ok, but the good DPS means that you rarely have to rely on it.
Th3 Ladyship
Clogwork Orange
Rote Works
#24 - 2012-07-10 15:08:08 UTC
Anyone considered suggesting a Rokh?

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Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-07-10 19:35:56 UTC
Metolz wrote:
So for both training time and practicality the tengu still seems to be the best option. I am however quite afraid of losing it- the loss of SP and a billion isk potentially would be quite catastrophic. I would try to fly it intelligently obviously, but if webbers are as much of a problem as mentioned, and i've also heard it can at times be a target for suicide ganking, these points would pose a problem for me (psychologically).

I like manouverability- the slow speed of a raven would bother me. But I would have absolutely no fear of losing a raven or even CNR because i've experience with battleships and also they cost a lot less than a tengu. Nighthawk in this scenario would seem ideal (not as big a loss as a tengu) but it's a lot more training which is a problem for me.

I'm still not too sure how to proceed Sad


I took the NH route. It really is a poor man's Tengu with the option to be passively fit instead of active for more buffer. (It's really the straight upgrade over the drake, all the others require some differences in playstyle)

The Raven is good for one thing only. Practicing flying that type of ship until you get your CNR. It's not enough of a bump over the Drake, and you have to train a bunch of weapon skills. Never underestimate the value of a speed tank. my NH has the sig radius of a BS and is slower than a Tengu, but it takes a lot less damage than my Rattlesnake simply by moving.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-07-10 19:43:02 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
You answered your own question already.

If you don't have money for a Faction BS, you certainly don't have money for a Tengu.

It's nice you have faction modules that fit on the the Tengu but the tengu including subsystems is more expensive than a Fitted SNI.

also if you haven't trained Caldari Cruiser V yet, you;ll be running LvL4 way faster in a BS than a Tengu.

an other option, depending on you Battlecruiser skills could be a Nighthawk.



If low SP is the problem the Raven's going to be worse than a Drake. The tank is more skill intensive, applying your DPS to small targets is harder, you actually need your drones to not suck, etc.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-07-11 08:05:52 UTC
If you're running lvl 4 missions in a you're shield skills can't be non excisting, not do I expect the Drone skill to be to low to handle 5 T2 drones.

I am asuming ofcourse although low skilled he has enough skills in the Drake to actually be moving forward to the Raven.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#28 - 2012-07-12 07:10:12 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
If low SP is the problem the Raven's going to be worse than a Drake. The tank is more skill intensive, applying your DPS to small targets is harder, you actually need your drones to not suck, etc.


I was flying level 4 missions in a raven with something like 5mil SP when I started. Just have to make sure you're alligned and be johny-on-the-spot with the triggers.

I now run missions for Caldari in Amarr space and I use a CNR, a Nightmare and a Tengu, depending on the mission. There is no 'best' because they're all good at different things.
Kharn Drago
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
#29 - 2012-07-12 16:29:19 UTC
Noob Question: Whats CNR? Big smile

I'm flying lvl 4 missions in my drake with t1 launchers and bad skills and I still earn much money (in comparison to lvl 3's).
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#30 - 2012-07-12 16:44:15 UTC
Kharn Drago wrote:
Noob Question: Whats CNR? Big smile

I'm flying lvl 4 missions in my drake with t1 launchers and bad skills and I still earn much money (in comparison to lvl 3's).


Caldari Navy Raven.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#31 - 2012-07-12 16:55:22 UTC
Kharn Drago wrote:
Noob Question: Whats CNR? Big smile

I'm flying lvl 4 missions in my drake with t1 launchers and bad skills and I still earn much money (in comparison to lvl 3's).


CNR stands for Raven Navy Issue
Cu3ball
Edge of Darkness
#32 - 2012-07-14 21:42:49 UTC
Short answer: every ship mentioned so far will do lvl 4's. And do them well. It really comes down to personal preference. If you like light and fast, go with a Tengu. If you like big and slow, go with a Raven/CNR/Golem/Rattlesnake. Something in the middle? Drake/Nighthawk. From missile boats, they all will do the job fine.

I have used all the above and more. Could never really get into using BS's, so I used a nighthawk for a long time. Switched to a tengu and really liked it. Now I fly both, depending on how I feel. Like someone said before, try to figure out what you want to fly next, after this ship.

Also, I use an Ishtur when I am bored, lvl 4's in an AF is a lot of fun. Not the fasted way to do them, but a lot of fun. Big smile
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-07-17 20:58:14 UTC
Cu3ball wrote:
Also, I use an Ishtur when I am bored, lvl 4's in an AF is a lot of fun. Not the fasted way to do them, but a lot of fun. Big smile


I always found it weird when people talked about doing missions with sub-optimal ships or fits "for fun". Missions are the most fun when they go fast and the isk to time ratio is favorable.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-17 21:59:47 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Cu3ball wrote:
Also, I use an Ishtur when I am bored, lvl 4's in an AF is a lot of fun. Not the fasted way to do them, but a lot of fun. Big smile


I always found it weird when people talked about doing missions with sub-optimal ships or fits "for fun". Missions are the most fun when they go fast and the isk to time ratio is favorable.

I sense you are on the cusp of grasping the meaning of "different strokes for different folks." Keep it up!
Masik Dreamweaver
Little Peoples Revolution
#35 - 2012-07-18 01:58:36 UTC
now what about anoms? ive dual boxed a tengu and a raven together and the tengu outshines the raven using cruise missiles. but i guess i need to get t2 launchers on the raven
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-07-18 03:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Traejun DiSanctis
Masik Dreamweaver wrote:
now what about anoms? ive dual boxed a tengu and a raven together and the tengu outshines the raven using cruise missiles. but i guess i need to get t2 launchers on the raven


The stock Raven is a little lackluster. It's a stopgap ship for missile-based PvE. From there, you go CNR for slamming through missions... or you go Tengu for WH, Exploration, missions and null ratting.
Velarra
#37 - 2012-07-21 06:04:30 UTC
Kharn Drago wrote:
Noob Question: Whats CNR? Big smile


Raven Navy Issue

Yet more casually as previously stated above, Caldari Navy Raven.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#38 - 2012-07-21 07:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
For a missile specced pilot its either Raven-CNR (or Golem instead) or Drake-Tengu (or Nighthawk instead) route.

If you plan to move to null in that char, however Cal Cruiser V will be infinitely more useful (and BC V too for Drake/Nighthawk) because of PVP uses (Tengu/Falcon/Onyx/Drake/Basilisk are all used in PVP), while torpedo skills will make you a decent bomber pilot only (and for missioning Raven/CNR you'll use cruise missiles instead, and not torpedos Golem uses which have zero PVP use).

Also Golem while its a top mission running ship is very skill intensive and dont unlock really worthwhile stuff IMO (and it needs BS V - even if you plan to skill for capitals, I dont think your corp or alliance mates will advise you to skill fro Caldari, as almost everyone uses armor capital doctrine AFAIK, shield caps have only niche uses).
Teemo Is-OP
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-07-23 06:02:47 UTC
Metolz wrote:
I've played this game on and off since 2007 on my other character, and I always assumed the natural progression for caldari ship mission runners was drake then raven then CNR/golem. I pretty much just play this character now and missions is what I am doing for the time being.

Reading a few topics recently I have seen people advising not to bother training for a raven and cruise missiles and to just hold out in the drake until you can get in a tengu. Is this really the case? Is a raven not an adequate upgrade, or is this simply a matter of the extra time a raven takes means its time not spent going towards tengu which is apparently more fun?

I currently have about 9mil SP, good fitting skills and 1.5mil in missiles. I'd really like to fly a nighthawk or a tengu but the thought of BC5 and cruiser 5 concurrently is very daunting. Is it really not worth me getting in a raven, would I not earn isk faster anytime soon? The battleships are of course cheaper too, it'll take a while to earn enough in a drake.



gimme a break. thats LOW sp. not lowISH. if u want ppl to help tell the mwt u have and be done. quit trying to make ureself feel better mushing the line.

Low SP (you): Fly a Drake do lvl 3's.

LowISH: Fly a tengu, do lvl 4''s. Decline the "hard" ones.

Medium: Fly a CNR with T2 cruises.

High (for missioners): Fly a Mael > Vargur/Mach

How do you know when ure SP is low lowish medium etc? When you can fly those ships and well (skillwise)
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-07-23 22:10:59 UTC
Teemo Is-OP wrote:
Metolz wrote:
I've played this game on and off since 2007 on my other character, and I always assumed the natural progression for caldari ship mission runners was drake then raven then CNR/golem. I pretty much just play this character now and missions is what I am doing for the time being.

Reading a few topics recently I have seen people advising not to bother training for a raven and cruise missiles and to just hold out in the drake until you can get in a tengu. Is this really the case? Is a raven not an adequate upgrade, or is this simply a matter of the extra time a raven takes means its time not spent going towards tengu which is apparently more fun?

I currently have about 9mil SP, good fitting skills and 1.5mil in missiles. I'd really like to fly a nighthawk or a tengu but the thought of BC5 and cruiser 5 concurrently is very daunting. Is it really not worth me getting in a raven, would I not earn isk faster anytime soon? The battleships are of course cheaper too, it'll take a while to earn enough in a drake.



gimme a break. thats LOW sp. not lowISH. if u want ppl to help tell the mwt u have and be done. quit trying to make ureself feel better mushing the line.

Low SP (you): Fly a Drake do lvl 3's.

LowISH: Fly a tengu, do lvl 4''s. Decline the "hard" ones.

Medium: Fly a CNR with T2 cruises.

High (for missioners): Fly a Mael > Vargur/Mach

How do you know when ure SP is low lowish medium etc? When you can fly those ships and well (skillwise)



You may be the biggest horses a$$ on the forum right now. Congratultions, sir... you have taken first prize in the idiot Olympics.
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