Ships & Modules

Recommendations:
1. I hear the UI fix on drones are in the works and I look forward to it.
2. Balance all the combat drones (not sentries) so that all their stats are the same except for damage type. I know that people will say that this will vanilla the game and WoW it but frankly no one complains that all heavy missiles perform the same except for damage type. A pilot must still make the decision what he will load into the drone bay prior to undocking so its still inferior to the choices that guns/missiles have.
3. Drone boat bonus should apply to more aspects of drones. Let Drone boats inherently provide speed, EWAR, Logi rep amount, and range boosts along with the damage and EHP already provided.(even salvage for when they come out) In particular the EWAR boosts need to be arranged that when drone boats launch a flight of EWAR drones it actually works and is viable. ECM drones could be excluded from this. Any complaint that this would OP drone boats is untrue as they are able to be destroyed easily and don't over heat.
4. Heavies need to be faster period, at least on Drone boats. Again there needs to be a reason to fly them.
5. Sentries need some work. I feel like they should be able to move quickly, deploy (stationary), and then shoot. At least return to the ship on their own. The range differences in them I guess are fine but the strange requirements on range engagement could use some examination I think. If sentries are to be the "rail guns" of drone boats they should be more viable.
6. Give all drones boats a bit of look at grid/cpu they seem lacking. Perhaps look at grid that allows for viable rail/arty use?
7. Give the Mrym a utility high slot.
8. Find a different second bonus to the Mrym other than active rep. Let the Brutix have that one. Give the Mrym something that works regardless of how you tank it.
9. Rethink the bandwidth on the Mrym. Of course I would prefer more.
10. Rethink more than 5 drones on the Domi/Ishtar? I know that is probably out of the box but not sure why that should be the case. (yes I know of the Guardian Vex)
11. The Vexor needs a better defined role. I think that if the drone bonuses pushed to EWAR drones/speed and others then it would perhaps find itself a role of fleet support/bombardment.
12. Find a way to work in overheating? Probably too much of a stretch but I find this to be one of the biggest drawbacks to flying drone boats.

Ok, I know this was too long but those are my observations and recommendations. Let the flaming begin!

Nope!

That's a fair comment. However, no other system requires so many different slot layout requirements to just make them work. You can pretty much get all around superior performance from any missle/turret system with the low slot weapon upgrades. You get bonuses to range, tracking, and damage all in the low slots.(only the tracking computer is mid slot and hardly used.) This allows you to fully take advantage of shield tanking. However a drone boat has to dedicate slots in the low, high, and mids. And then on top of that you do need to try and get something out of the guns. It really is a bit of a stretch and could be thought out a bit better.

You don't see to many PvP losses with Drone Nav or tracking mods in the mids. Juice not worth the squeeze. A very few with the drone link augmentor, Drones are too slow to normally make sacrificing a high slot to watch an Ogre fly 70 kms to the target worth it.

But at the end of the day, there are a lot of other points beyond just the fact that their are mods that improve drones that I've brought up.

I agree with the the majority of points made by the OP. Drones in general and drone boats in particular are in serious need of a complete rethink by CCP.

I also agree it will never happen because CCP has over the years has avoided really addressing the fundamental design problems inherent in drones in PvP, which are:

1) Delayed Damage: Drones have the longest delayed damage in the entire game. If you look at the average speed of non-sentry drones (sentries discussed below) they are much worse than even missiles (torps being ignored because they are usable at only such short distances that their slow speed isn't a big issue). In pvp instant damage is what you really (for both burst damage and fast target switching) and the longer the delay from starting to apply damage to finishing applying damage the greater your disadvantage.

2) Can't Apply Damge: In pvp most ships use speed mods (either MWD or AB), and many are nano fitted. As a result often the problem arrises that drones simply cannot reach and keep up with the enemy ship. Heavy drones and non-minmatar light & medium drones suffer from this problem especially. Even if the drones can finally catch up to the target the added flight time required for a drone to reach is target because it is moving fast adds to problem #1 above.

3) Moderate Damage: 5 drones deployed by a dedicated drone ship (Domi, Myrm, etc...) even using the new low slot drone damage mods do overall damage that is roughly in the middle of the range for weapon systems used on sub-capital ships (blasters being the highest, smart bombs being the lowest).

4) Has return time: Drones are the only weapon system in the game that require time (often significant) to recall before the originating ship can warp away from its currently location or jump through a gate or portal. This is a serious disadvantage in pvp, where often the drone ship will need to move with its fleet members on a moments notice either by warping to a new location in system or moving to another system.

5) Can be Destroyed: Other than the rare occurence of SB bombs and regular missiles being killed by aoe damge from smartbombs, drones are the only stardard weapon system that can be destroyed independently of your ship by enemy action. And they are subject to destruction the entire time they are being used (undock to redock in drone bay). Yet drones have very small ehp and are easily killed by most ships smaller than a battleship, and battleship and capital ships can use smartbombs to destroy or drive away drones.

6) Sentry Dones Cant Move: Sentry drones are the only ones that can overcome the above problems of delayed damage and can't apply damage. However they are stationary AND require the originating ship to either stay with them (and suffer a serious loss in mobility, which is critical in pvp) or move away from them and risk losing them if suddenly required to warp or manuver far from the position where they were deployed. In addition, ships chosing to stay with their senty drones will often have the problem of not being close enough to an enemy ship to use its highslot weapons (if they are using short or medium range systems).

7) Split Weapon Systems: All sub-capital drone ships are split weapon system based, using drones plus highslot weapons. Split weapon system ships are by definition inferior to single weapon system designed ships because they have non-universal ship weapon bonus' plus require different ship mods to be fitted to support each system, thus using up additional fitting slots compared to single system ships.

8) Non-Damage Drones are Ineffectual: Other than ECM drones (which actually are designed for pvp, and are used by many players) the ewar/cc drones are inferior in application to the ship fitted mods they mimic, and rarely seen. Combined with the critical problem that a dedicated drone boat pilot must chose to not use his highes damage weapon system (combat drones) in order to field them. How many times has the average pvp'er been hit by target painter, sensor damping, or tracking disrupting drones in a real fight? When an entire class of a game system is generally not used by the players it is a sure sign it is in serious need of a rethink or removal from the game.

And the above are only some of the problems drones have in pvp. CCP has never liked drones and for most of the time has ignored them and left them to slowly fade away. This is probably due to the fact that they strongly add to server lag (ask the goons about crashing servers using massive drone fleets), are difficult to program into the game in a way where they work correctly but don't consume alot of server CPU cycles, and in general do not fit into the dev's well established favored play style of speed tanking gun using CC packing fleets (see Winmatar for further info ).

Recommendations (because I'm a hopeless dreamer):

1) Seriously consider removing drones from the game if they cannot be designed to be a weapon system equal in power and utility to guns and missiles. Why do you want to have an entire line up of combat ships that are fundamentally inferior in PvP in an MMO that is built around PvP? If you cant do it well, dont do it at all....

2) Redesign drones as a PvE centric weapon system and thus buff up their survivability and damage against NPC's in mission/WH's/exploration while reducing PvP effectiveness (simple start: give them a dmg and resistance bonus vs NPC's). Currently drone boats are used in PvE to slowly kill NPC's while players do laundry or watch a movie. Lets move drones out of this AFK playstyle if ccp isn't going to make them competitive in PvP.

3) Get rid of all of the non-combat ewar/cc drones except ECM. Almost no one uses them, they utterly cripple the drone boat by removing most/all of its dps, and they represent an inferior version of the real ship fit mods they are trying to mimic.

continued...

Maybe have a CPU and powergrid bonus for drone control units on drone boats? Wouldn't affect speed issues but would certainly turn them into a single weapon platform.

I'm an avid drone user since 2006. I've seen alot of changes and some for good, some for bad. I can even remember before bandwidth when my myrmidon could field 5 heavies... those were the days.

While i agree with some things in this post, other topics are exaggerated, misleading, or missing some general info that changes the vantage point by a large margin.

Heavies: Yes, heavy drones are slow. Yes, they take FOREVER to reach a distant target, but you know what, that's ok. They aren't meant to be used on far ranged targets. You can easily squeeze 500 dps out of a flight of ogre 2's. Drop them on a target that is within 20km, and they will have no problem landing hits unless a) your skills suck, or b) they are fast as hell, in which case you would like not track them with guns either.

Sentries: DONT TOUCH THEM. I love my sentries, always have. For PVE they are amazing as they can match the tracking of a legion with substantially more range. Any turret aside from lasers needs time to reload or change ammo type for better range/dmg. Sentry drones can be recalled, new ones dropped and engaged, in about 2-3 seconds.

Yes, they do not move and have to be picked up manually, or you just dont move at all. Fair trade for being able to switch from high DPS 30km dmg to low DPS 100+km dmg in under 3 seconds. Show me a turret ship that can do that.

Modules: I agree on this point. It's odd that we have dmg in lows, speed in mids, and range in highs. Maybe consolidating the links and speed mods would be nice, so you can boost both with one module. I vote high slot though, as most drone boats have them to spare.

Split waepon system: I'm not bothered by it. It breeds variety. I LOVE my dominix because of it's versatility. When i engage someone, they don't know if i'm going to melt them with blasters, or smoke em with nuets. A plit system doesn't gimp you, it gives you more choices. You just need more skills to make those choices count.

Most Minmitard pilots have dealt with this for years, having both projectile weapons and missile/torps on many of their ships. They dont complain because, if you train for it, and set up right for it, it makes you highly Versatile.

Destructable weapon: Yeah, you can lose your drones easily in a skirmish if they are targetted, but that's ok. Drones are, effectively, the ONLY ECM resistant weapon in eve, asside from smartbombs and SB bombs. I love engaging falcons and whatnot because even if they jam me, my drones will tear them up. It's a fair trade.

The UI needs work, and the AI definetely needs work. I'd like to see the modules reworked and consolidated. Heavies could maybe use a slight speed boost, but i mean slight.

Otherwise, Drones are fine. Show me another weapon type that:

Uses 0 cap to fire
Uses 0 ammo to fire
Can "Forever Fire" meaning, once engaged they will keep shooting without having to press another button.
Can fire even when jammed/damp's provided they were out prior
Can change dmg type to ANY dmg type
Can change range in 3 seconds. (sentry)
Can engage ANY sized target on a proper ship (a dominix has 400 m3 of drone space, enough for a ridiculous variety in drone type and size, meaning alot of choices when engaging a target.)

PS: For god's sake, give the Ishtar more cpu, and fix the EOS. Fix the EOS, fix the EOS....

Really, i think the ishtar's CPU deficit and the EOS's no-sense bonuses are the biggest issues here. Other then that, the other ships are fine.

Leave the Myrm, it works great as it is and just because YOU dont use the rep bonus, doesn't mean other don''t
Don't touch my Dominix. It was my first love, and still makes T3's tremble when they see me in it.

Wind

First off: what about the Arbitrator/Curse/Pilgrim? Where's the love?

And don't forget the Gila when you ask for Ishtar buffs

I see people wishing for a drone boat that's solely focused on drones, not just in this thread, but all the time. Perhaps what's called for is a highslot mod which takes up a turret or launcher slot, and provides a bonus to all aspects of drones. Speed, tracking, damage, even ewar effects. Not an insurmountable buff, but enough to make up for the loss of a (potentially) bonused weapon. This could allow for the focused drone boats without removing the ships' ability to use weapons. Another reason I'd like to see better modules that hurt a ship's ability to deal direct damage and make it into more of a drone boat is that, while it's sometimes easy to forget, we do have drone boats out there without drone bonuses. There are several battleships out there with a 125mb bandwidth and more than a 125m3 bay, letting them make full use of drones. If a series of buffs are given to bonused drone boats, and drones are made weaker or left alone for average ships, I'd be afraid of these ships getting caught in the rift between the two.

Oh, and concerning ECM drones, before you complain about them any more, is it the drone itself that's the problem, or ECM in general? I think ECM needs fixing, not ECM drones.

I like the idea of a combined high slot drone mod which boosts damage, range, EHP, speed, optimal and tracking of drones at the same time. Fitting it would lead to less fitted turrets (or neuts) and makes it balanced. Keep all existing drone mods for more flexibility in fittings. Because that's a key feature of drone ships imho: flexibility and unpredictability.

You must be in school still right?

Sorry, my tracking skills must be too low to follow you.