These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Please consider bringing EVE back to Linux in the future
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#21 - 2012-07-20 11:16:33 UTC
Alayna Le'line wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
[quote=March rabbit]Then again my experience has been limited to Red Hat.


There's your problem, using a distribution explicitly not catering to desktop users...

Ubuntu and it's ilk are (or were, before they felt the need to break their UI) easier to use than Windows for people not already stuck in the Windows ways. There are basically two reasons not to use Linux: resistance to change and unsupported software. A proper port of one of the games I play would already reduce the need to even buy a windows license by one piece of software.

Also those saying that Linux is inferior as gaming platform: you probably haven't tried (unsurprisingly as there's few native commercial Linux games around). Lots of games run way better natively on Linux than on Windows, assuming they DO run and this is not something recent, it's been the case since the original Unreal Tournament.

And since we're all flexing our "been using Linux since"-peen. GNU/Linux user since 1999 (Red Hat Linux 6.0). On that note the main problem with "oldtimer" GNU/LInux users perceiving the OS as not fit for desktop use is because they don't use (and often actively avoid) the new desktop stuff. They are, as such, as much stuck in their ways as the Windows users (human nature and all that).



I agree that Ubuntu/Canonical have been game changers, and that the Linux Desktop is in many ways superior to the Windows desktop today.

However, there are indeed a number of reasons why Linux is still an inferior gaming platform to Windows - and it is not the lack of titles, but why those titles are lacking that make it so.

And it boils down to Linux, as a platform, not having a unified framework analogous to DirectX API family. DirectX is much more than just graphics, it is also about hardware, memory management, networking etc. In other words, Microsoft is able to provide developers a standardized development API that helps developers cut time to market without sacrificing their creative vision.

While in Linux aspects of the DirectX framework exist, such as OpenGL or SDL, they exist as separate projects, directed by different priorities, and have (As all opensource, community driven projects will) many issues with hardware compatibility, standardization, and other factors that make them attractive to corporate developers.

The lack of a unified gaming API means that in linux:

1) Limited hardware driver support for gaming hardware - everything from video boards to niche input devices.

2) Lack of straightforward code porting

3) Coding uncertainty - since the underlying guts can widely differ, porting to linux can mean a support headache. This is what happened to CCP.

In short words: developers of gaming software and hardware design for windows, and the Linux community has not provided them for any reason not to. Ubuntu/Canonical have been able to do this for the utility desktop: Dell and other major commodity desktop producers have adapted their process to ensure Ubuntu compatibility. Yet until a similar effort emerges for gaming, Linux will be objectively bad at gaming - even if it can in theory be better than windows for a variety of reasons.

Only fanboyish internet butthurt hides this.
Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA Real men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-07-20 11:22:22 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
being Linux developer/user for last 10 years i don't see any reasons to use it outside of "internet/mail/photo/music/etc.." area.
So i don't support your request. Use proper hardware/software for what do you use and you'll be ok. Don't ask well implemented console from Windows, don't ask well implemented games from Linux.

PowerShell is pretty awesome if you know how to use it...

.
0wl
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-07-20 11:31:55 UTC
Eve Is the only thing that keeps me stuck to Winblows :[
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-07-20 11:46:52 UTC
0wl wrote:
Eve Is the only thing that keeps me stuck to Winblows :[


I always find it funny what someone says Eve/Wow/etc keeps them trapped in Windows, why would you want another OS when all you do is play mmo's?

Windows is the easiest OS to use when it comes to gaming...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-07-20 12:34:37 UTC
Amenotep Polo wrote:
Linux is the future. The sooner companies realize that, the better for all of us.


You see, if the forum software didn't have this post dated to 2012.07.20, I would have just assumed it was from any other year. Linux dorks have been saying this since 2008, 2004, 2001, 1998, as far back as you can find these open source distros really. Just a bunch of really anrgy aspies shaking their head at the world, "You just don't understand! You'll never know the joy of trying to make my stupid OS work on an incompatible motherboard, or spend months getting the network and internal sound drivers to work, if they'll ever work. There's SO MUCH customization! It's the way of the future, get on board now or fall behind forever!" etc. etc. etc.

And then you'll shout and point out that there are distros where these issues are minimal and it's a consumer grade OS, when it isn't. It's just a shambling frankenstein cobbled together out of ugly parts. Gnome sucks. Most Linux GUI options are terrible. If you're not doing highly technical work on a computer there's go reason in hell to boot that miserable operating system.

I used to be a serious geek, guys, I used to love that stuff, but I grew up and realized that gaming is the domain of the Windows PC, and sometimes it's the domain of people who are willing to run things like Wine or whatever the Apple OS equivalent is. That's not changing. If linux ever becomes mainstream, it won't be for decades. CCP would be stupid to support any Linux distro, as would ANY game company.

The only reason Valve might do it is because their internal structure is setup in such a way that anyone can do pretty much what they want. So their one or two linux nerds on the payroll can get together and develop a linux steam client. That doesn't mean donkey doodoo for anyone else.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#26 - 2012-07-20 12:45:02 UTC
Ive had it going under Wine, but yes it is very fragile, cant get it working with my current setup.

The great thing about Valve working on bring steam to Linux is that hopefully their focus can bring stability and more functionality to some of the flaky graphics layers you need to go through when doing 3d graphics through Wine under Linux.

Even if CCP do nothing (and realistically they cant do anything) its still good news for EVE under Wine/Linux
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-07-20 12:48:21 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Amenotep Polo wrote:
Linux is the future. The sooner companies realize that, the better for all of us.
Linux dorks have been saying this since 2008, 2004, 2001, 1998, as far back as you can find these open source distros really.


Google Android may be able to make something happen on the Linux/desktop front...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
I Love Lesbians
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-07-20 12:49:28 UTC
Amenotep Polo wrote:
Vulix wrote:
Rumors are Valve has been developing their Steam platform on Linux, and there are some images and videos floating around of Left for Dead 2 being run on Linux. Given there is a real lack of quality games that run well on Linux, I imagine a lot of Linux users will be downloading steam soon.

Also, let's be honest; Linux users are mostly nerds who already like video games and sci-fi. . I believe CCP would see quite a bit of success pushing EVE through Steam to Linux users, not too mention we might see Windows 8 eventually push some folks into the Linux direction anyhow (I'm skeptical myself on this, but I think Android has demonstrated people can accept new computing experiences without too much difficulty).

Do it CCP. Do it for Internet freedom


There was a linux client once.

It was put down because less than 1% of players actually used it.

Besides, EVE runs great on wine.



Really people should actually research before posting number....

It was 1% that used the CCP made wrapper (they never had a real linux client), this was back when we had 2 eve clients (shader models, graphical stuff known as Premium and Classic) only the classic one was released by CCP in the wrapper, everyone on linux was running the premium client in wine.

That's why they decided to stop the client.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-07-20 12:49:44 UTC
dexington wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Amenotep Polo wrote:
Linux is the future. The sooner companies realize that, the better for all of us.
Linux dorks have been saying this since 2008, 2004, 2001, 1998, as far back as you can find these open source distros really.


Google Android may be able to make something happen on the Linux/desktop front...


It's a good mobile system but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#30 - 2012-07-20 12:51:59 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:

The only reason Valve might do it is because their internal structure is setup in such a way that anyone can do pretty much what they want. So their one or two linux nerds on the payroll can get together and develop a linux steam client. That doesn't mean donkey doodoo for anyone else.


"The Valve Linux team is currently 11 people and growing. Our mission is to investigate open source development with a specific focus on supporting Steam and other Valve products on the Linux platform. The Linux background of our team varies from those who have a deep knowledge of Linux development to those who have just scratched the surface. However, one thing we all share is a great passion for supporting all things Valve on Linux." - http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/Linux/

Rumour/Speculation say if valve get steam working well under Linux they might consider bringing out their own console.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#31 - 2012-07-20 12:53:43 UTC
This thread just reminded me of how awful Win8 is going to be.

"Hey Microsoft, Metro sucks, we don't want a point-and-click adventure game, we want an OS. We'll just use the classic desktop instead."
*Microsoft removes the classic desktop

I hope it goes down like Vista.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-07-20 13:00:20 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
This thread just reminded me of how awful Win8 is going to be.

"Hey Microsoft, Metro sucks, we don't want a point-and-click adventure game, we want an OS. We'll just use the classic desktop instead."
*Microsoft removes the classic desktop

I hope it goes down like Vista.


You can turn off metro so you should probably stop making things up.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2012-07-20 13:03:19 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
I hope it goes down like Vista.
So far, only Win2k has bucked the trend, so being an “even“-numbered windows, it will… Blink

Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
You can turn off metro so you should probably stop making things up.
Not really, no, unless they accidentally left something in when they removed that ability (and if they did, it'll be removed too).
Price Check Aisle3
#34 - 2012-07-20 13:32:35 UTC
I have mixed feelings on this one. I use both on a daily basis since my job is a "mostly-"Linux house (if you count all the Ubuntu users as Linux users... Roll). At home, I use Windows for my gaming box. The problem as I see it is that Linux lacks a unified "standard" gaming library that everyone uses, like DirectX on Windows. The greatest strength of Linux (choice) is also its greatest weakness. If Valve were to come along and mandate that all games that were released on its Steam Linux platform used one or two libraries you might see CCP and other companies seriously consider Linux clients, especially since those libraries might see greater exposure and development.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-07-20 14:18:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
being Linux developer/user for last 10 years i don't see any reasons to use it outside of "internet/mail/photo/music/etc.." area.

My experience with Linux shows it to be sub-optimal and less intuitive than Windows for these purposes. Linux really shines as a developer environment and a technical workstation OS.
Then again my experience has been limited to Red Hat.

the same is here. Linux is developer system, made by developer and for developers.
It can be used for "regular" user but some core decisions make game developing difficult. And 99% of problems for games is in graphics core.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Spurty
#36 - 2012-07-20 14:28:56 UTC
I love Linux, but Windows is popular becuase it's designed for gaming 1st.

No clue what else it's actually good at, so 2nd is not really worth worrying about.

I use windows for games, Linux for work / serious stuff and Mac just becuase I get those free from work

If Linux had native driver support (open source) and serious bleeding edge graphics, sound, networking etc etc frame works then sure. Go for it. But using wine to run games is far too time consuming to fiddle about with.

Also breaks for no clear reason when you update every now and then.

Currently a pipe dream.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Tyraeil Starblade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-07-20 14:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyraeil Starblade
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
[quote=Amenotep Polo]...
The only reason Valve might do it is because their internal structure is setup in such a way that anyone can do pretty much what they want. So their one or two linux nerds on the payroll can get together and develop a linux steam client. That doesn't mean donkey doodoo for anyone else.


"After successfully porting L4D2 to Ubuntu, interest grew within Valve and, as a result, the team and projects we were working on also grew."[1]

I see you've read an article about Valve's management (or lack thereof) style. While that's cute, it doesn't really make you an authority on the subject. You can kindly STFU now.

1. http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/
Muscaat
EVE Markets
#38 - 2012-07-20 14:56:29 UTC
I first started playing EVE (way back in 2008, how time flies!) because it looked like a cool space game and it was possible to run on Linux+Wine.

When the official Linux client came out, from the moment it was launched to the moment it was retired, Wine was far ahead in terms of performance and capability.

Now, four years later, I'm still running EVE on Linux via Wine and, while it's true that sometimes patches can break stuff, by and large it's smooth sailing. (And it's not like sometimes CCP's patches don't break Windows... boot.ini anyone? Blink)

So I'd say that CCP should concentrate on the core gameplay and not worry about having to try porting to Linux again.
Vulix
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-07-20 15:33:32 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

that's OK. every Linux newb starts from "Windoze suxx, Linux FOREWA"....
return when you spend enough time in Linux outside of internet browser.


Sir, the Internet runs on Linux. I've been developer using Linux for 11 years, first starting with Mandrake in 2001. Go back and actually use the OS instead of pretending you did please
Captain Aries
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-07-20 16:08:04 UTC
How did the OP get the words "linux" and "back to the future" in the same sentence.

Brb while i polish my DeLorean.
Previous page123Next page