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Machariel vs. Vargur
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Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-19 21:04:35 UTC
I'm thinking of investing into a mission runner ship. I've mostly flown ships I "like" until now (Like a PvE Typhoon) however I would like to start really making ISK.

So my choices are either a Machariel or a Vargur. Even if I have to cross-train Gallente, I can get into a Machariel a lot faster than I can a Vargur.

So I'm kinda wondering; should I shell out for a Machariel, or stick through with the Vargur training and get one of those later?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
superdon
Confederation Navy Research
#2 - 2012-07-19 21:08:54 UTC
Depends.

If you like to salvage along the way, the Vargur is the way to go.

If you wanna blitz the missions, go with the Mach.

I like to salvage, so personally I prefer the Vargur. Besides the Mach has a serious hunger for ammo.

If you're willing to invest the time in AWU 5, go with the Vargur. Besides, everyone should have AWU5 anyways.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-07-19 21:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
superdon wrote:
Depends.

If you like to salvage along the way, the Vargur is the way to go.

If you wanna blitz the missions, go with the Mach.

I like to salvage, so personally I prefer the Vargur. Besides the Mach has a serious hunger for ammo.

If you're willing to invest the time in AWU 5, go with the Vargur. Besides, everyone should have AWU5 anyways.


I've got AWU4, and AWU5 is "only" 24days.

Minmatar Battleship is a whooping 35Days.

I already own a pretty pimp Thrasher to salvage in. Probably not too time efficient, but gets the job done....

Eventually.

To put it into perspective: Vargur is over 80days of training away: Machariel is 6days to fly, 11days and I'll have both Gallente and Minmatar Battleship at Lv4 which should get a lot out of the Machariel.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#4 - 2012-07-19 21:19:26 UTC
Pretty much comes down to what you want out of 4 slots.

I absolutely LOVE the Mach as a mission boat. It's hefty. It punches things in the face like some people wish they could the school bully. It's got nice lines and designing, and...let's face it, the thing looks like it's gonna sit on other battleships and make them cry due to its size.

The Vargur is also a fun ship, but you get 4 high-slots for utility, unlike the Mach. However, the Vargur, side by side, gets trumped in raw DPS output when compared to the Mach, so those added resists/tankability and utility highs come at a price.


That said and done, though.... AWU5 and Minny BS5 are still a must for the Machariel. Big smile
superdon
Confederation Navy Research
#5 - 2012-07-19 21:21:38 UTC
With all that training time left, go with the Mach. It's almost as fast and agile as a cruiser, and can put out a TON of DPS.

If you can still get your AWU 5 and Battleship 5, if you can spare the training time, your new Mach would love you for it.

If you don't already, get T2 autocannons.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#6 - 2012-07-19 21:40:14 UTC
Salvaging nowadays is so-so.

As for ships, Mach is the king of PvE right now and nothing can match it.
It takes less then 20 mins for me to finish AE and during the mission I also do some atl+tabs and other stuff.
Mach is the magic, no ship can do missions as fast as this ship.

But you need good tanking skills and mods.
Vargur has 2 times more tanking compared to Mach, so it's easier to do missions in Vargur with just T2 stuff.

So if you have good tanking skills and money for mods Mach is the only choice.
Well it also works with just T2 stuff, but not as uber as with faction/deadspace.

My Mach has faction/deadspace mods mostly.
It does 1100+ DPS with just guns and has ~71km of falloff. Oh and also flys faster then 620 m/s.

Whatever.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-19 21:47:18 UTC
A Machariel it is then!

Anyone got any fits for it? I looked at Battle-clinc and they all had uber-mods on them, there weren't any "My first Mach"-type of fittings..!


Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2012-07-19 21:48:27 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I'm thinking of investing into a mission runner ship. I've mostly flown ships I "like" until now (Like a PvE Typhoon) however I would like to start really making ISK.

So my choices are either a Machariel or a Vargur. Even if I have to cross-train Gallente, I can get into a Machariel a lot faster than I can a Vargur.

So I'm kinda wondering; should I shell out for a Machariel, or stick through with the Vargur training and get one of those later?


Mach for sure. There's little reason to gimp your income stream for longer than you really have to. Though you could argue that running L4 missions gimps your income stream, I suppose. How far away from a Carrier 4 Nidhoggur with sentry drones are you?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#9 - 2012-07-19 21:49:24 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
A Machariel it is then!

Anyone got any fits for it? I looked at Battle-clinc and they all had uber-mods on them, there weren't any "My first Mach"-type of fittings..!





Depends on your skills. I would recommend autocannons with an (excessive) shield-tank and DPS mods in the lows. Scale back the tank as you get comfortable with not going boom.

You can also take those 'Not-quite-my-first-Machariel' builds and scale them back to T1 or T2 equivalent to suit your budget and skills, but be warned... under-performing modules kill ships.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-07-19 21:49:55 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I'm thinking of investing into a mission runner ship. I've mostly flown ships I "like" until now (Like a PvE Typhoon) however I would like to start really making ISK.

So my choices are either a Machariel or a Vargur. Even if I have to cross-train Gallente, I can get into a Machariel a lot faster than I can a Vargur.

So I'm kinda wondering; should I shell out for a Machariel, or stick through with the Vargur training and get one of those later?


Mach for sure. There's little reason to gimp your income stream for longer than you really have to. Though you could argue that running L4 missions gimps your income stream, I suppose. How far away from a Carrier 4 Nidhoggur with sentry drones are you?

-Liang



Somewhere in-between a year and a decade I believe. Blink

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-07-19 22:43:05 UTC
superdon wrote:
Depends.

If you like to salvage along the way, the Vargur is the way to go.

If you wanna blitz the missions, go with the Mach.

I like to salvage, so personally I prefer the Vargur. Besides the Mach has a serious hunger for ammo.

If you're willing to invest the time in AWU 5, go with the Vargur. Besides, everyone should have AWU5 anyways.


^This.

Feel free to private message for fits/tips if you do choose to use vargur.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-07-19 23:01:01 UTC
For best results, use a Double Nidhoggur!

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2012-07-20 02:38:40 UTC
7x acs
auto targeter

1 xl booster
2 hardeners
cap injector
mwd

4x gyros
3x tcs

large projectile bust a something, t2 rof rig ftw!
50calibration rig, I'd probably go with the agility one

tbh I mostly just use 2x invluns as I'm lazy, and some people like to swap the cap injector for a boost amp, which a lot of the time would work fine but I just like having the cap injector there.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-07-20 03:12:42 UTC
Mach is far better.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-07-20 03:18:23 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
A Machariel it is then!

Anyone got any fits for it? I looked at Battle-clinc and they all had uber-mods on them, there weren't any "My first Mach"-type of fittings..!




I needs a fair amount of faction or deadspace gear to have enough CPU to for a NOS or neut and tank.

Save the T2 fits for PvP.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-07-20 05:59:10 UTC
35 days for Bs V?
Try plugging in better implants and remapping for Perception and Willpower. They will make training Spaceship Command and Gunnery noticeably quicker.
Example: I maxed out Perception and Willpower. Coupled with +4 implants, it only took me 27 days for BS 5. Which would be 8 more days of training something else.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-07-20 06:08:29 UTC
For flying the Mach, keep your speed up constantly. Your speed and DPS is the Mach's tank. That being said, max both BS skills before flying it, so you can keep rats as far away as possible. Falloff bonus is your friend and at 5 you get 50%.

I would also ask if faction ammo is cost-effective for such a rapid firing ship. T1 ammo may be better in the long run. I'm not sure myself because I'm getting a Vargur instead because I like looting and salvaging which
Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#18 - 2012-07-20 06:24:56 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
A Machariel it is then!

Anyone got any fits for it? I looked at Battle-clinc and they all had uber-mods on them, there weren't any "My first Mach"-type of fittings..!


No offense, but if you can't afford 1B in mods, you probably should not fly a mach. Remember: Fly only, what you can afford to lose. You can build a T2 Mach, with a XL-Shieldbooster, a boost amplifyer, some faction specific hardeners and an ab, but chances are, that you'll need fitting mods, such as a co-processor, which are almost always a gigantic waste of a slot. I don't have a fitting program at hand right now, so just grab your eft and try to get it together ;-)


regards,

rob
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-07-20 07:58:07 UTC
High's: 7x t2 800mm's, tracktorbeam (or whatever)

Mids (moderately expensive): Pith B-type x-large shield booster, 2x pith c-type mission specific hardeners (cpu, bit of extra resists) Republic Fleet Afterburner, Heavy cap booster.

Low's: 4x Republic fleet gyro's, 3x t2 tracking enhancers

Rigs: T2 Large projectile burst aerator, second is up to choise really, I run with a anti-therm screen reinforcer.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-07-20 22:52:00 UTC
Cheap T2 mach that can run any lvl 4

[Machariel, T2 lazy]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
[empty high slot]

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
[empty rig slot]

Ogre II x4

If you aren't sure about cap/don't have your cap skills all to 5, swap the rigs for CCC's. Swap drones for whatever you want, but I rarely ended up launching them. Fit does 1083 dps from guns with maxed skills using faction ammo and no implants, and has more than enough tank for any lvl 4. Swap hardeners to suit.

Faction bling is just that - bling. Aside from increasing the damage, all these faction midslot setups are wasting their isk, or not paying attention when they are flying. With a t2 fit you may actually need to pay attention to triggers (which you might not with a full deadspace midslot fit), and your shields may run low occasionally. Also, for the rigs, you can swap the second one for something else, but since I flew in gallente space, I had the ionic field projector to allow me to actually lock when being damped...

-Arazel