These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Proposal] Invention (is way too limited)

Author
Rvlxnx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-11 04:32:06 UTC
Would it break the game?

BPO's::


let's say i take EMP S Projectile and Antmatter S Hybrid :: End Result: Hybrid with EMP damage

etc.


lets say i take a Gallente Cruiser and a Caldari Cruiser:: End Result a Caldari Cruiser with Galente Ship Bonus %'s

etc.

Reverse Engineering, BPO's would have to be 100% Researched complete, Maybe some Specialised Skill Training like both Cruiser (or any ship) Skill Maxed in order "to have the knowledge and understanding" of how it could be invented.



NOW i do not have ANY Knowledge about Invention and its Endeavors but i do know you can not do anything like this.

I in my opinion "INVENTION" should have alot more "OPTIONS" rather than being so limited.

If Anyone has the same ideas or is thinking along the same lines please Elaborate some more, as i only have a base idea without any real knowledge. OR ANY Ideas on how to make Invention have more "Freedom" would be nice to see.
Ronan Connor
#2 - 2011-09-11 16:22:47 UTC
Problem is, that the balance of the game would be in danger with stuff like that. Even if you start with ammo.

Ships for sure wont be changed like that. You would get alot of overpowered ships. Think about what would come out, when you mix a Drake with a Dominix? In case of ships I think T3 is, what intends to give you more freedom.

Invention is limited, cause the men power behind it is limited.
PointlessWitch
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-09-11 19:09:31 UTC
Who cares if ships are overpowered.... just means they will be much more expensive.

If we had free invention, obviously people would start by trying to make 8-8-8 High-Mid-Low slot ships with 500k eHP.
Everything has to have advantages and disadvanges.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall...
The fancier they are, the more people that want to see it dead...
The more powerful they are, the harder they are to control.


EVE is so limited in relation to realism.....
"There is no speed limit in space"
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-09-11 21:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
Rvlxnx wrote:



NOW i do not have ANY Knowledge about Invention and its Endeavors but i do know you can not do anything like this.

I in my opinion "INVENTION" should have alot more "OPTIONS" rather than being so limited.

.


Little off topic but it has to be said about invention.

I do know about invention. Frankly, I wonder why CCP called it invention because you dont actually invent anything. It already exists. In technical terms, you simply 'draft' the t2 blueprint from the t1 copy.

And the way EVEONLINE invention works, it is based on the priniciples of 'chance'... a gamble. If the item is already invented (exists in the game) and you are 'drafting' a t2 blueprint based on the t1 variant, it should not be based on a 'gambling' system to create but an 'attrition system'. So if your skills are high in said invention you should have not a mere 25%+ chance (say to invent a ship bpc) to get the t2 variant but a much greater chance. Hence, by attrition based on your skill set, you stand a chance of destroying the materials used. Bad skills you mess up the draft and have to start again more often than not. Good skills (say... maxed), very few are destroyed in the process.

Bottom line is, invention as we know it isnt invention at all.. its a craps shoot even on maxed skills.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#5 - 2011-09-11 21:59:08 UTC
Initially it was called reverse engineering which would be fairly accurate .. why the change was made to invention is lost in the hashish clouds at the office I reckon.

If such a mix/match system was to be introduced there would need to be extreme downsides, for example:
- The outcome of a given job should be rare and random.
-- Truly useful (read: valuable) results should be the proverbial one in a million.
- You might get a Caldari resist hull with Gallente drone bonuses but slots/stats would be all screwed up.

But, but, but ..
There is no reasonable way to balance it without making someone very unhappy/dissatisfied so it will never happen.
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-09-29 19:32:10 UTC
EEk, call the feds were breaking the game now.

lets try another look from eh eyes of some one that has done a bunch of invention. the lack of a bpo on completion isn't cool even if it were a super rare deal some would be awesome. also i believe invention should get the inventor the next lvl of ship or gun pbo. so say i invent a amarr frigate i would have a chance to get a bpo of a bigger frigate and on.

So basically i see invention as some thing that i can start with the bpo of the smallest of a item and slowly invent it to a end game item.

like a bpo to a small projectile ammo could be invented all the way to a xl projectile.
The Offerer
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-09-30 10:17:04 UTC
PointlessWitch wrote:
Who cares if ships are overpowered.... just means they will be much more expensive.

If we had free invention, obviously people would start by trying to make 8-8-8 High-Mid-Low slot ships with 500k eHP.
Everything has to have advantages and disadvanges.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall...
The fancier they are, the more people that want to see it dead...
The more powerful they are, the harder they are to control.
"


Do you mean something like supercarriers:

- an utterly expensive ships (for most of the players) - not a real disadvantage for large alliances
- are sure big enough, but in a large group they don't fall at all
- they are fancy and hated enough in the game already and many want to see them dead, but there is no other mechanic to kill them except bringing more supercarriers
- they are powerful, in fact, they are way overpowered against all ship classes and fleet compositions, yet they are a piece of cake to control

Conclusion: No, we don't need more of those.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#8 - 2011-10-10 18:12:18 UTC
Rvlxnx wrote:

I in my opinion "INVENTION" should have alot more "OPTIONS" rather than being so limited.


invention has a load of options. After delving into it myself you quickly learn that you either got lucky when you choose your invention research, or you had bad luck and choose to put your SP where people have t2 BPO's then your sp is wasted and you have almost no hope of competing.


there really is alot of options all of which are SP required tho.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-10 18:36:03 UTC
Rvlxnx wrote:
NOW i do not have ANY Knowledge about Invention and its Endeavors but i do know you can not do anything like this.

I in my opinion "INVENTION" should have alot more "OPTIONS" rather than being so limited.



Not yet said: If you don't know then why are you proposing to change something you don't know?

Bit of a minefield you stumbled into.

And yes I do second some of the thoughts on the nature of invention...don't do it myself but I've read up on it.... its a bit messy at first but a big money maker...

Never understood why its called invention.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#10 - 2011-10-10 21:00:34 UTC
It's all about balance. The ability to mix-and-match ships to produce new, modified ship designs would be a balance nightmare. Most of these ships would be horrible, with fitting statistics completely inappropriate for their bonuses.

One thing you need to understand is that anything in Eve that is based on a predictable model will be completely modelled and worked in such a way that optimal results can be gained every time. This will result in the "superships" for each class being built and used by the biggest alliances while less-knowledgeable people won't be able to compete. Ultimately this would have little impact on anything, you'd just have a new crop of "best" ships to buy on the market and it would be harder for the "small guy" to compete because of the steady stream of perfect BPCs being generated by the big boys.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#11 - 2011-10-10 21:02:12 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Never understood why its called invention.


I read a bit of lore like a year ago that explained it reasonably well. Can't find it quickly now, too lazy to look very hard.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-11 00:30:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Never understood why its called invention.


I read a bit of lore like a year ago that explained it reasonably well. Can't find it quickly now, too lazy to look very hard.


Yeah....know the Lore you speak of.

But the literal definition of invention is to "craete" or "invent" something new....

Invention in the game mechainics is more of an upgarde or a modification towards a known product is not unique to itself.

Not necessarily invention in my definition of the word...but ok.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#13 - 2011-10-11 00:44:24 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Never understood why its called invention.


I read a bit of lore like a year ago that explained it reasonably well. Can't find it quickly now, too lazy to look very hard.


Yeah....know the Lore you speak of.

But the literal definition of invention is to "craete" or "invent" something new....

Invention in the game mechainics is more of an upgarde or a modification towards a known product is not unique to itself.

Not necessarily invention in my definition of the word...but ok.


Yeah, "development" might be a more accurate word, but I'm sure "invention" was chosen because it sounded better.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Di Mulle
#14 - 2011-10-11 03:57:52 UTC
Amun Khonsu wrote:


Little off topic but it has to be said about invention.

I do know about invention. Frankly, I wonder why CCP called it invention because you dont actually invent anything. It already exists. In technical terms, you simply 'draft' the t2 blueprint from the t1 copy.

And the way EVEONLINE invention works, it is based on the priniciples of 'chance'... a gamble. If the item is already invented (exists in the game) and you are 'drafting' a t2 blueprint based on the t1 variant, it should not be based on a 'gambling' system to create but an 'attrition system'. So if your skills are high in said invention you should have not a mere 25%+ chance (say to invent a ship bpc) to get the t2 variant but a much greater chance. Hence, by attrition based on your skill set, you stand a chance of destroying the materials used. Bad skills you mess up the draft and have to start again more often than not. Good skills (say... maxed), very few are destroyed in the process.

Bottom line is, invention as we know it isnt invention at all.. its a craps shoot even on maxed skills.


Isn't all this obvious, just by definition ? Everything in game is pre-programmed and nothing new can't be "truly invented". It can't be anyhow else. Excluding human behaviour and decisions they make, thats' what actual game is.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>