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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Interstellar travel, Capital RR, and Triage discussions
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#141 - 2012-07-18 21:33:54 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
How often do people alpha strike Titans or MOMs in small gang warfare? If people want to bring out the big guns then either they will win or they get a great fight or they are hot-dropped and destroyed. Also, think beyond sheer damage: There is more than alpha and dps. While I was joking about a fleet of Pilgrims (yes they will neut well), I am not joking about talking all Eve mechanics seriously rather than merely complaining that damage isn't the answer without looking for good alternatives.

There is more than small gangs. There are hotdrops. I once heard a good saying, "There is no such thing as solo fights and small gang warfare." While not absolutely true, it well underscores the saying, "All is fair in love and war."

Emporer wrote:
I was in a triage nid (yeah a nid, sexy time like whoa) supporting an ahac fleet just last week. We lost an archon (it was me +2 archons supporting) because he was too dumb to refit off one of us to tank when he starting going down v0v. Otherwise, triage is quite fine. And T2 triage...oh god :fap:

1 Archon went down, so what happened to the triaged Nid? Did the other side bring any caps? What do you think would have happened if the triaged Nid had been primary or a hotdrop escalation had occurred? Seems to me, without RR support, the Nid would have gone down. Despite the 4x local rep bonus, triage does not allow remote energy and if you had been properly neuted, triage yields no benefit to you. This point also illustrates what I am saying about triage.

You are literally a complete idiot.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#142 - 2012-07-18 23:48:34 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
How often do people alpha strike Titans or MOMs in small gang warfare? .


I've personally seen it happen about 4 times. Everything from a Rag to an Aeon.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-07-19 00:16:56 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
How often do people alpha strike Titans or MOMs in small gang warfare? .


I've personally seen it happen about 4 times. Everything from a Rag to an Aeon.

boomsday device ftw?
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#144 - 2012-07-19 01:01:26 UTC
Jesus, he's STILL talking.

Andy, dude, you've lost. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about. Having the ships and the skill doesn't mean you know what the **** you're doing.


Biomass yourself...just please do....
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#145 - 2012-07-19 11:56:28 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:

1 Archon went down, so what happened to the triaged Nid? Did the other side bring any caps? What do you think would have happened if the triaged Nid had been primary or a hotdrop escalation had occurred? Seems to me, without RR support, the Nid would have gone down. Despite the 4x local rep bonus, triage does not allow remote energy and if you had been properly neuted, triage yields no benefit to you. This point also illustrates what I am saying about triage.


Jesus christ, you aren't very bright are you?

1. If hostiles had dropped caps on us, I would have literally jizzed my pants while I got someone to broadcast for a cap form up and counterdrop. It would have been amazing.

2. The above would never happen because the hostiles in the area never use their caps :(. We were surprised they undocked subcaps to engage us.

3. As someone pointed out, that's kinda how triage works. You get "JESUS LOOK AT MY REPS AND TANK, CANT TOUCH DIS, AWWW YEAH" for a few minutes with the risk of no remote reps. Thats why its great for subcap support.

4. If I had been primaried, I'd have refit for my tank, popped strong exile, overheated errything and prayed.

5. For cap fights, yes, triage is basically a suicide tool to save supercaps. That doesn't exclude it being viable for subcap support or POS repping.

6. You have literally no experience with caps, cap fights, or anything cap related beyond moving some stuff around. Why are you still theorycrafting?

Seriously, answer my question.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#146 - 2012-07-19 17:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Astroniomix wrote:

Actualy your post ilustrates the whole point of the triage mechanic. You get to become an hero mode for 5 minutes provided they don't drop an army of dreads on you. (also triage is king in wormholes)

Good point about wormholes, but even there, neuts work just as well.
By the way, "hero mode" sounds an awful lot like "suicide" mode, even in wormholes, because without triage, you can at least get energy transfers on you from friends. My idea of being a hero is saving others without getting destroyed.
If that Nid or any carrier loses cap by neuts, the EHP suddenly falls WAY down, and despite triage, it becomes an easy primary.

So, Triage must at least allow energy transfer to counter the neuts, else triage yields no benefit after the cap is dry. If triage is to be RR on steroids, it only makes sense that it allows RR, despite the whining of the dps fanatics (ask EW pilots for some advice on how to counter RR).

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#147 - 2012-07-19 17:34:33 UTC
A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, would be grossly overpowered.

Seriously, stop theorycrafting. This thread is terrible.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-07-19 17:37:52 UTC
Andy "I won't stop posting even when everyone tells me I'm terrible" Landen.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#149 - 2012-07-19 17:51:48 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, would be grossly overpowered.

Seriously, stop theorycrafting. This thread is terrible.

I find it offensive that you call Andy's blithering nonsense theorycrafting.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-07-19 18:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Emperor Salazar wrote:
A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, would be grossly overpowered.

Seriously, stop theorycrafting. This thread is terrible.

A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, to join the fleet tank is NO MORE grossly overpowered THAN a siege dread that can add to and enjoy the fleet's dps tank.

These ideas are great because the trolls hate them. They are good because triage is under-used (esp. compared to Siege) and because carriers are weak (isolated from fleet RR tank to which they contribute) compared to dreads (sharing in the fleet dps tank to which they contribute). They are good because all ships deserve their own hyperdrives, just like in every other genre of sci-fi. They are good because the best arguments against them are "you are stupid" and "stop posting." It's funny because even an attempt to address the DD 1-2 shot alpha of a carrier was met with an expert confusing raw HP/damage with resist-adjusted EHP/damage for a terrible over-estimate on the number of DDs that a carrier can tank.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#151 - 2012-07-19 18:49:56 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, would be grossly overpowered.

Seriously, stop theorycrafting. This thread is terrible.

A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, to join the fleet tank is NO MORE grossly overpowered THAN a siege dread that can add to and enjoy the fleet's dps tank.

These ideas are great because the trolls hate them. They are good because triage is under-used and because carriers are weak compared to dreads. They are good because all ships deserve their own hyperdrives, just like in every other genre of sci-fi. They are good because the best arguments against them are "you are stupid" and "stop posting." It's funny because even an attempt to address the DD 1-2 shot alpha of a carrier was met with an expert confusing raw EHP/damage with effective EHP/damage for a terrible over-estimate on the number of DDs that a carrier can tank.

The best arguments are posted repeatedly over seven pages, but sometimes even we grow tired of writing eloquent and lengthy replies to what amounts to abject stupidity and voluntary ignorance.

As for the statements concerning your apparent lack of intelligence, I think that is a given. But if evidence really is required I would point any outside observer to the fact that you retroactively edited posts to remove evidence of you not understanding things.

Also, there's always this. It does not appear to support your claims of being a capital pilot, nor does it support the hypothesis that you have the slightest clue what you are talking about in terms of PvP.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-07-19 18:55:27 UTC
I'm going to go buy me some popcorn, this is just hilariously bad.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#153 - 2012-07-19 19:01:04 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:

A triage carrier that could receive reps, even energy ones, to join the fleet tank is NO MORE grossly overpowered THAN a siege dread that can add to and enjoy the fleet's dps tank.

These ideas are great because the trolls hate them. They are good because triage is under-used and because carriers are weak compared to dreads. They are good because all ships deserve their own hyperdrives, just like in every other genre of sci-fi. They are good because the best arguments against them are "you are stupid" and "stop posting." It's funny because even an attempt to address the DD 1-2 shot alpha of a carrier was met with an expert confusing raw EHP/damage with effective EHP/damage for a terrible over-estimate on the number of DDs that a carrier can tank.


What is this post?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#154 - 2012-07-19 19:02:07 UTC
Seriously, I can literally imagine a fleet of 100 triage archons circle jerking.

That image is terrible and you are terrible for not realizing how horrible that would be.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#155 - 2012-07-19 19:03:17 UTC
Please tell us this has all just been an elaborate troll.
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#156 - 2012-07-19 19:12:47 UTC
What is Effective Effective Hit Points?


-munches on waffles-
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-07-19 19:14:10 UTC
It's super effective!

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#158 - 2012-07-19 19:15:38 UTC
Guys if we keep trolling he's not going to take us seriously.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#159 - 2012-07-19 20:50:48 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Seriously, I can literally imagine a fleet of 100 triage archons circle jerking.

That image is terrible and you are terrible for not realizing how horrible that would be.


Can you also imagine 100 dreads alpa'ing each Archon in turn?
Can you image Remote ECM Bursts killing their locks?
Can you image specialized bombs attacking locks or capacitor detonating in the center of those Archons?
Can you imagine multiple DD's per Archon laughing at the power of Triage?
Can you imagine each Archon locking the other 99? Because they can't. A fleet of Archons more than "x" locks plus x lock slots free to lock the next primary is meaningless.

Now if your issue is with the shear increase in RR output through the Triage module, that is open for discussion, but you will doubtless also need to consider the dps analog with the Siege Dread. The increase in RR and dps from each module respectively should probably be similar.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#160 - 2012-07-19 20:54:38 UTC
That post shows yet again that you have no understanding of how cap fight actually go down, the rare occasion that they happen.

Probably has to do with the fact that you've never actually used a cap ship

Cap pilot indeed.