Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We're reading the thread and taking feedback from sisi testing. Ytterbium is on a well deserved vacation but I'm keeping track of possible tweaks to these ships as well as getting the groundwork laid for the rest of the frig changes and some more surprise awesomeness.

We're expecting to release the attack frigs in Inferno 1.2 coming up in the near future.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, keep it coming.

And how about an ETA on missile changes? any intention to change the ridiculous penalties on t2 missiles as if shield ships don't have a big enough sig the dps missiles make them even bigger a drake ends up being a battleship although i think all tier1and 2 bc's have too big a sig rad too begin with.

surprise awesomeness?

any hints?

Given that EWAR and prop mods and tackle all live in the mid slots, is that a bad thing? These are frigates, so, given tiericide, the number of possible slot layouts is small. There are plenty of other variables with which you can distinguish one from the other: bonuses, base speed, PG, CPU, Cap, shield, armor, etc.

The proposed changes are looking pretty good, I would however like to make the following comments:

Executioner: The "10% reduction in cap use for energy turrets per level" does seem like a bit of a rip-off. Given the nature of it's supposed role, perhaps a 7,5% tracking per level would synergize better. If that leads to cap problems, perhaps a slight buff to base capacitor, however complete cap stability doesn't strike me as particularily important for these ships.

Condor: Given the fact that autocannons take up far less powergrid/cpu than rocket launchers, it seems odd that the Condor would have less grid than the Slasher. Even a slight buff up to 35 powergrid seems more viable.

Slasher: Seems fine; the only issue I see, if you can call it that, is that it now has as many turrets as a Rifter and the same bonuses as well. In my opinion the Rifter needs some help at this point.

Atron: Haven't had a chance to mess with it too much, thus can't really comment, seems a bit fragile for something geared towards blasters though.

Tormentor/Punisher: I don't see the need draw lines connecting the frigate lineup to the battleship lineup. In order to make the most out of the Tormentor, you would need to train both turrets and drones, putting new players at a disadvantage. True, the Tormentor does more DPS and the Punisher has more tank, but seems to me that the main difference between the Tormentor and the Punisher currently is that the Tormentor has 3 mids, while the Punisher only has 2, meaning point/web/speed mod is an option for one but not the other. I don't know what the plans are for the Bantam/Navitas/Burst, but additional "combat frigates" don't really seem necessary. Would rather see these in a support role of some kind, but then, EWAR is covered, astrometrics is covered, what is left; ECCM, remote sensor boosters, tracking links, remote repair? Either way, would like to see the utility high on the Punisher moved to a mid.

Missile changes: Rockets seem fine at the moment, can't say I see the need for a further buff. As for a buff to light missiles, that would be nice, however I think the main issue with Light Missile Launchers is the powergrid requirement. Reducing that by 1/3 would likely make them more viable. If the damage/precision is increased, the current ammo capacity on LMLs seems a bit excessive.

*shrug*. It's a fast laser boat that's capable of controlling range that does Punisher-level damage (yeah, same number of turrets and same damage bonus as the Punisher -- and the new Tormentor, excepting its drones). If it does need a buff beyond the psychological buff of no longer having a cap bonus, then your proposed bonus would let it fly like a baby Slicer: Dual Light Beam Laser II, faction crystals, and two metastasis rigs -- it can hit to longpoint range and it can track better than a typical Slicer, but for only about 75 DPS after skills and two heat sinks. Being able to do 100 DPS with that fit hasn't made the Succubus (which has the exact same bonuses/level as you propose) more popular than the Slicer :-)

I think a +10% optimal/level bonus is more versatile: you can drop to gatlings and locus rigs if you want super tracking in scram range; you can do 150 DPS at 20km with Medium Pulse Laser II and Scorch:

a single "double" damage bonus ^_^

This is what I was talking about earlier in this thread - if CCP turn every T1 frigate into a 'generalist all rounder' class with little to distinguish them except a hull bonus here and a few extra hit points there, we're not going to see balance, we're just going to see a shuffling of the pack with a different set of ships being sent to the 'do not use' category. We're facing the prospect now of a set of 16 T1 frigates which all do basically the same thing with the main difference being the weapon system they use, as well as seeing talk of allowing the e-war frigates a larger focus on damage output.

I feel that the 'T1 ships should be all-rounders' concept is being stretched further than it should, and we're seeing signs that they'll all turn out as an undefined homogeneous range of hulls with different models but which all do more or less the same thing.

The slasher and rifter are just barely different enough. Rifter is significantly tougher with one fewer mid and an extra low, and a significantly lower base speed. Essentially it is heavier and slower, yet tougher with a little more damage capability. If the slasher makes the initial tackle, the rifter has an easier time actually holding the tackle down and taking a chunk out of it once it catches up.

However, the difference is currently pretty negligible. Honestly, I think that each of the combat frigs should have a tanking bonus. Slasher is fine, but adjust the Rifter so that it gets an active armor or shield bonus, basically. Right now its function is a little too similar to an attack vessel for comfort, and it doesn't feel quite beefy enough to be a combat vessel.

Regarding the Executioner:
I played around a while on SISI with the new bonuses and while the new bonuses are definitely an improvement over the current ship, overall, I was underwhelmed by the experience. As a light tackler, the new Executioner will be fairly competent, though I believe there is nothing that will set it apart from the other attack frigates.

On the “attack” side of things, things aren’t looking good. The main issue is the constraint of engagement range with pulse lasers in respect to other frigates, in particular hybrid platforms. The Executioner doesn’t have the tank or dps to brawl with the likes of the Atron, Merlin, and Incursus (or even the punisher), but also doesn’t have the damage projection to sit outside of scram/web range with scorch and a TE. Further, a beam fit doesn’t project enough damage and is hampered by the lack of a tracking bonus.

The main issue I believe is the reduced capacitor requirement for energy weapons. Considering that most frigate fights generally last under a minute, the benefit of the increased energy efficiency is somewhat lost. A more appropriate bonus would be for energy weapon damage, optimal range, or tracking.

The fits that I tried were primarily based around an MWD with a warp disruptor to take advantage of the role bonus, and to take into account its intended role as a cheap light tackler. Variations include dual prop, ASB, and TD and web versions with various combinations of laser based turrets.

Just for reference sake, I fly almost exclusively Amarr ships so I am fairly familiar with their capabilities.