Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There is always alpha, and that really isn't that hard to do. And you could always follow the capital through the hyperspace window. So, they would not be invulnerable. Alpha will instapop them, and (if that doesn't work) pursuit will finish the job on the other side.

Jesus christ, you're still posting.

Supercarriers can still have fighters.

Supercarriers are not a T2 variant of carriers.

Cap fleets rarely use command ships for fleet bonuses.

Slave implants in a carrier? Get out~

This thread screams ignorant theorycrafting left and right. Seriously, go talk to actual capital/supercapital pilots.

The issue is that capitals aren't just used in big titan fleet fights, they are also used in small gang warfare. Plus they are simply too cheap and disposable to really be given invulnerability in the way you suggest.

As for following them, what happens if they all use the hyperdrive to fly to different places? And if carriers can receive RR, move and escape in triage, what is the point in ever not being in triage? Literally the only time you'd ever want to leave triage is for slowcat fleets, and even then likely you'd keep half your guys in triage for lolwtfdpstank.

Oh, and btw, since Grath is being too polite to post it: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Grath+Telkin#knownShips

I can see that he flies both dreads and carriers, and at least two different races of both. If I look further back it would not surprise me if he owns a titan, or has a titan alt. He's also ranked in the top 1,500 on BC.

Arguments from authority aren't always the be all and end all, but given your personal experience in your position I'd probably at least consider myself being incorrect as a possibility.

Yes, a 1.4b isk hull is disposable. I have and fight in t3s that are more expensive than that, and you cannot insure t3s.

And how exactly do you neut flat an entire fleet of carriers? And of course logis are used in small gang warfare, what's your point? You said the only viable defence against carriers should be alpha, are you seriously comparing alpha striking cruiser hulls to multi-million ehp carriers that rep for 20x the amount?

If you can't afford to lose it, you can't fly it. 'Afford to lose' means 'have no serious problems with reimbursing'. So yeah, leave the fighting in carriers to those who can afford it.

And also... do you really think Alphastike Online is great? If you want to alphastike something, it means 1) your dps is too low, 2) their spider is too strong. In case of triage carrier there is no serious problems with killing them (comparing to nontriaged pantheon ones). So it seems everything is okay here. And you want to bring alphastriking here?

I'd rather nerf the RR stuff with stacking or a hardcap on the quantity of RR per person then. Who the hell needs RR in blobs anyway, except for the supercarriers and other exploiters of Spidertank of Invincibility who have enough EHP to not be alpha'd? You're alpha'd anyway, the count of your logistic buddies doesn't matter.

At least in medscale the situation should be okay then: there would be no such thing as 50-man fleets that can't kill anybody of the opposing fleet, so they start alphastriking logistics to do at least anything. Oh, and the SoI will go away.

I have plenty of ISK. I just don't waste it. There is a difference between flying 1-10 mil ISK hulls in "suicide" gangs, and flying a basilisk in a gang with 4 other basis.

You know it is funny how people find the thing that they don't like, x, and then call Eve, X Online. Always amusing. I know that some people simply don't like logistics. I love logistics.

Fact, alpha strike is a very common strategy for killing logistics. I have been alpha struck a time or two as a logi. Actually escaped once in Insmother with hull damage only to return to the fight after getting repped by another hull damaged basi. Fact, RR is very commonly used in blobs. Did my fair share of logi duty in Test alliance for some time. Look, RR is not an exploit and is a great thing in Eve. If one side can't figure out how to break RR, then they lose, simple as that. They can also complain to the forums, but that won't improve Eve. It is okay for something to have a strong enough tank to not die. If there is a 50 man fleet that can't kill anything, then they need to raise the IQ a bit because their strategy and tactics are broken. Just because someone only loves dps doesn't mean that anything that frustrates them has to go. RR is a good thing and we need more meaningful Triage modules. As it is, Triage modules are only used for suicide defense of SCs/fleet escape and pos duty. Triage really needs a lot of improvement and so does Siege.

Again, showing you know nothing.

I was in a triage nid (yeah a nid, sexy time like whoa) supporting an ahac fleet just last week. We lost an archon (it was me +2 archons supporting) because he was too dumb to refit off one of us to tank when he starting going down v0v. Otherwise, triage is quite fine. And T2 triage...oh god :fap:

Let me reiterate my last point:

So you've never lost a carrier? Ever killed anything in one? No?

Then why the **** are you presenting this thread as being based on the opinion of a capital pilot? You clearly aren't a capital pilot, having the skills and the ship doesn't make you experienced with the ship class. Using it for personal logistics just makes you a glorified JF pilot.

And you can get 1.4b from a single low sec rated site drop, it's not a "big deal" kind of sum of money.


A fleet of pilgrims isn't going to do jack **** against a fleet of triage slowcats* that can spider tank because some idiots took all the triage penalties away. Have you ever actually flown any of the ships you've spent the last seven pages rambling on about?

*Well, they'd make for good salvaging I suppose. But beyond that, no one would be stupid enough to try it.


Of course alpha-striking logi is common, but my point was aimed at small gang warfare and carriers.

How often do people alpha strike carriers in small gang warfare?

How often do people alpha strike Titans or MOMs in small gang warfare? If people want to bring out the big guns then either they will win or they get a great fight or they are hot-dropped and destroyed. Also, think beyond sheer damage: There is more than alpha and dps. While I was joking about a fleet of Pilgrims (yes they will neut well), I am not joking about talking all Eve mechanics seriously rather than merely complaining that damage isn't the answer without looking for good alternatives.

There is more than small gangs. There are hotdrops. I once heard a good saying, "There is no such thing as solo fights and small gang warfare." While not absolutely true, it well underscores the saying, "All is fair in love and war."


1 Archon went down, so what happened to the triaged Nid? Did the other side bring any caps? What do you think would have happened if the triaged Nid had been primary or a hotdrop escalation had occurred? Seems to me, without RR support, the Nid would have gone down. Despite the 4x local rep bonus, triage does not allow remote energy and if you had been properly neuted, triage yields no benefit to you. This point also illustrates what I am saying about triage.

Actualy your post ilustrates the whole point of the triage mechanic. You get to become an hero mode for 5 minutes provided they don't drop an army of dreads on you. (also triage is king in wormholes)