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Help for a new trader

Paper View
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-18 01:20:20 UTC
Hey guys,

I haven't posted here before although I have been lurking for several months. I'm currently on my third attempt to make isk through station trading and I have run into problems every time I try. My problems are mainly that the speed at which my buy and sell orders are filled is depressingly slow, even on high volume items and I can't figure out why.

I've been putting down buy orders for (usually) meta 1-4 items, planetary goods and ammunition. I figured that ammunition and meta items would drop from missions and that planetary produce is so numerous that my buy orders would fill quickly and I would be able to sell on. So far though my buy orders are disappointing me. Usually after several days of waiting and 0.1 isking (I update my market orders a good 4-5 times a day usually) I pull in very poor numbers.

Secondly, when putting up sell orders, the sell orders go too slow as well. One of my ventures was a meta-4 shield booster. It took well over 2 weeks to sell even a hundred units even though the regional data showed many hundreds of units being sold per week. I've tried selling them in chunks, which has helped in the isk wrestling but still nowhere near the expected volume is moving.

I;ve had some limited success flipping items or buying items well below the next buy order and bumping up the price - however I find the profit margin is far too small in these cases. I'm also trying not to leave the station much as this toon has very poor skills and I don't much enjoy hauling.

I've heard many people talking about keeping the number of items you trade small so as not to burn out, but I'm really not seeing many other ways to generate more income without branching out significantly. Can anyone point out any obvious flaws in my plans? I am currently trading in Dodixie - more for convenience than anything,
Any advice?
New Edens Freeports
#2 - 2012-07-18 11:53:10 UTC
Im no pro trader, just do it small scale for fun time to time...

Maybe the things your trying to buy are not focused on system your trying to trade. For example buy price for minerals is sometimes greatly affected by distance from hub.

For the second, dont confuse regional volume with single systems volume. Hundreds can be sold in all over region, but it dosent mean theyre sold in single system. People like to buy close by so they dont need to fly 20 systems to pickitup.

Some peple do buy in regional level and then pick them up when theres enought, haul to somewhere else to be sold for better price.

Thas about biggest secret in tradeing, what to trade and where... Also reading about market graph...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2012-07-18 12:13:42 UTC
Remember, the regional volume will also include the modules being sold to you.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Peri Simone
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#4 - 2012-07-18 14:28:26 UTC
Paper View wrote:
Hey guys,
I've heard many people talking about keeping the number of items you trade small so as not to burn out

There's some wisdom in this, but I find watching individual orders to be quite dispiriting. You mention that you're updating 4 or 5 times a day, so I'd suggest it wouldn't hurt to expand your range and update less often. I can't see any obvious flaw in what you're doing, though your expectations may be a little high. Remember that the people making billions have billions invested, and have spent time and effort getting to that stage*.

*Except the "I Made A Zillion Isk In Six Minutes On A Trial Account" people. They are freaks.
Nayl Mkoll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-18 17:37:34 UTC
Depending on where your trading updating orders 4-5 times a day wont cut it... especially in jita. sure i love when i wake up to a bunch of **** bought or sold while i was asleep from my orders but this usually comes at the price of the fact that the market swung. and as such most of the profit made will be when you are active and checking. I set my orders for 24 hours, helps me feel less commited to it, yes the timers reset when you update an order but if i dont get to the trader alt for a day my isk comes back to me and i dont have to worry about a huge market swing and logging on to abunch of items in my hold that i have to sell at a loss. your on the right idea of volume items, but especailly in jita you get undercut / "overcut?" like crazy.

I have three accounts, when i wanna really trade hard i'll usually be doing something else on the other toons but checking the trader and updating market orders as needed every few min whilst im on. This is in jita.... My indie toon in rens has much better time just setting and forgetting long run orders that i can make some profit on whenever i happen to jump clone back their. but to make solid profit margin numbers in jita you generally have to be pretty active with it.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#6 - 2012-07-18 18:58:54 UTC
In the case of your Meta-4 shield booster in Dodixie, it doesn't surprise me that it took a long time to get rid of them. Think of the people who use meta-4 shield mods, they're probably newer players that don't have the SP to use T2 and generally, they're going to be Caldari and some Minmatar because the ships they use are shield ships for the most part, so Dodixie isn't the best place to trade lower end shield stuff as low SP Gallente people aren't going to be buying shield stuff. Also, when I station trade, I don't get into it for much more than 5 -10% of the average daily volume, depending on the item and where I'm trading, so you having a hundred of them even if they sell 500 a day is probably too much for only updating 4-5 times a day.

Also, try running various PI production chains for a little while to see where people would buy from sell orders. I haven't been into PI for a long time, but it's been my experience that people generally don't buy low tier PI stuff from sell orders unless they have a shortage in their own production, and only then when their heavily into PI and trying to min/max.
Paper View
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-19 00:29:59 UTC
Thanks a lot guys, those were really helpful answers. I'm interested to see how much I can make, had a bit more success today increasing the numbers of buy orders and price flipping. I'm going to be hauling intra-region a bit more too as it seems a decent way to make a little more isk on the side. Regarding planets, my alt runs them and I have traded a little on the PI products, but from my mind If I were selling PI goods unless I needed money quickly I'd always sell at my own price, not to buy orders.
Thanks again for the help!