Warfare & Tactics

Winning in faction war is what you make of it. If you achieving your objectives you are winning. Neither side is going to surrender so the war never really ends. Its complicated and sometimes arbitrary to say who wins in real life wars.


I think I understand the advantages and disadvantages of making your goal isk efficiency. I was never interested in it. One player may want to cling to his 500k isk rifter and only engage if he is sure he can win. I on the other hand ground isk to blow it up. I don't want to give the ships away I want to have as many good fights as I can before their gone. But I figured out ways to make isk in this game so I don't want to be tied down with those who have to scrimp and save - if that makes sense.

To the extent I have any goals I think I prefer bcs rankings. They are the only things that seem to be somewhat accurate with better pvpers tending to the top of the list. But that is a whole other story.

Anyway I was just saying that if you truly want to calculate isk efficiency you should take account the lp. Lets say the killboard says both sides blow up about 12 billion in stuff. Well both sides will get about 4 billion divided by 10,000 in lp. (I say 4 billion because insurance is deducted as well as mods that aren't blown up. its a rough number and its probably higher) The minmatar lp is worth about 8k isk per lp. (assuming tier 5) The amarr is worth about 1k isk per lp. (assuming tier 2)

So if the killboards say both blew up about 12 billion the minmatar are actually coming out ahead isk wise by 3.2 billion versus 400 million or 2.8 billion.

I guess one could argue that eventually we will hit tier 5 and so our lp could be worth more. I won't stop you from believing that because i think it will too. But it will take a while so I guess valuing our lp could be tricky. But I do think you should count that lp as going to the minmatar because that is real isk that they can fairly easilly cash out at about 8k isk per lp.

So in the near term most minmatar who are interested in isk ratios will be happy to fight the amarr even if the killboard says amarr killed 14.5 bill and minmatar only killed 12 bill.

Could kind sir explain from where this information was get?

I wouldn't take into account the different values of LP between the factions personally because that's going back to PVE concerns which are irrelevant to the actual engagement itself. The system control status is dictated primarily by PVE plex farmers, not actual PVP. The minnie LP being worth more than amarr LP in any given PVP battle is completely irrelevant and external to how well each side does within the engagement internal to itself.

The value of loot taken in any engagement isn't calculated into ISK efficiency either and at least in my experiences, Amarr hold the field a lot more often than Minmatar. I'm not rejecting that these are entirely useless considerations, but they should not be mathematically applied as if they negate ship losses suffered either. I'm concerned with what each side brings to the field in ships and which of those ships end up being destroyed by the opposing faction in any engagement as far as determining who won the actual "PVP". LP earned and wrecks looted are secondary, if not tertiary considerations.

I'd be willing to bet the disparity is much greater than the proposed guess of 2.5 billion, but who knows unless CCP actually release the data. That's just speculation from my perspective.

Many of the above points could be used as reasons for the Amarr to be already wining (except organisation), as you have already said in your post they do not necessarily mean warzone control will be greatly affected.

I find it hard to believe a large null sec alliance will cope with having to ship down to thrashers and orbit buttons for hours on end, just accepting the fact they are steppind down to FW would do awful things for morale.

I can't express how much we, as minmatar want this.

The idea of having our missions confined to 5 systems, with no travel time.

You'd see alts running back and forth up the pipe collecting 10 missions an hour, while thier mains burned though the huge mission stacks in a Tier 3 BC gang.

You could be looking at in excess of 300k LP / hr PER mission collecting alt, provided the was a handful of BCs around to gank the missions down.

A lot to read on this thread. Can't really analyze it and get the information out regarding the situation.

I don't really care for the politics, or the whining about the other side having bigger, better, faster ships or that they have more people. If you have the will power to win fights then you will.

All I want to know is:

Are the Minmatar winning?

Is it worth staying in the Amarr Militia after so long out of the game?

yeah and FW will become nullbear playground just to poke around ....oh yeah dear CCP Ytterbut u made it

Your slaves won, so deal with it!

Just saying...

Poetic you have been with the militia for less than a couple of months i think.

Were you around much before inferno hit? I don't think so.

I appreciate your desire to make the system equal and have the amarr able to fight us to an easier extent but that doesn't mean we should just hit a reset button.

We worked our assess off to hold the space we did before patch as we know we would lose our **** as soon as it hit if not. So we pushed and pushed and pushed before patch day and help the line and since then it has been being pushed slightly further and further. If we wanted a reset we would have just gave up then and moved all our **** back to minmatar space but thats not the case.

Quite alot of entities are dug in into amarr space. Such as Iron Oxide. in arzad and Late night in huola/kourm. To have moved all our **** before the patch would have been impossible so we took it to them to prevent that from happening.

Also with regards the goons comment. They really did nothing at all to the war. They managed to make a exploit work where they could make vast amounts of isk. That isk didn't go to the rest of the militia. It also didn't have any effect on the warzone systems wise as we were the ones who took all the systems in the first place allowing them to chuck in enough LP to make the t5 store easy.

And since they have gone we have done it ourselves at least twice. All it has taken is us to decide a day to do it and get LP donating.

What we need for Amarr to start to win again is for them to actually care about plexing and the taking of systems. I imagine there are a few like it now but i imagine the most don't. And even with a reset you couldn't guarantee that they would actually fight anymore than now it would just be us having to start over and make more LP in the process.

I appreciate your comments and such but from someone who has been in the militia for a good long while i just have to say i don't agree with what you think should be the case either way.

Still. Minmatar Victor! etc etc?