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Newtonion Mechanics - Let's get some space realism

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Author
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2011-10-09 10:59:22 UTC

Holy **** !

Nobody ever thought of that ! Nobody ! It's a first !

Wow, i believe that'll change EVERYTHING NOW !!!

CONGRATULATIONS !!! ... to such an ORIGINAL topic !
Gunslinger Sixx
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-10-10 11:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gunslinger Sixx
OP, not gonna happen. the tech for this isn't available, I mean, games like vendetta online use newtonian model but their graphics are nothing like EVE. I don't see it working here. what I always thought WOULD be cool, is jump drives on every ship, and elimination of gate travel altogether. there must be another way for people to find each other, one that's more interesting than bottlenecking people at boring-ass gates. that alone would require a massive re-think on how new eden operates..but it would be damn cool, IMO.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-10 12:22:48 UTC
One reason why lightspeed isn't the practical speed limit.

How good is your particle shielding? Can it take 0.5c impacts? Big smile

Something I liked in the Troy Rising series
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#44 - 2011-10-10 14:06:32 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Its a videogame.


Oh noes... so it isn't true Roll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#45 - 2011-10-10 15:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Okay for those you not as well read about as I am about ship technology in eve.

We theorycrafters hammered alot at why the ships in eve are submarinic in nature and come to conclude that we're using a form of purpolsion in common terms would be a "Gravity Pull" drive. In which the drive grabs gravity like a rope and pulls itself along which would limit the maxium speed and why you stop when you cut all power to the engines and then also why exhasut placment has no impact on ship movement as its the core thats responsible for pulling along, and those are juse used for cool and are out of the way of foward sensors as ion discharges can oftenly interfere with readings.

The altenrative however is going to make you go Do'h big time though, the inertia slumps and compensators acting as your counter force to the extreme voilences involed going 0 m/s to 673,191,000,000 m/s in 5 seconds and your compensaters can only counter act so much of that and the mass invovled and slumping it all off would take a life time however its better used as breaks instead of easing up on the slump's load. Also before you go cry BS on that explaintion tell that to Star Trek first the supposive authority on all things science fiction operations (which I hardly give them only a meager 2-5% contribution on, most dominate in diplomacy and social concepts, not so much on technology) , unfourtunately thier interal comps never seem to fail either mid flight. Imagine how horrible that would be if one where to suddenly go out during warp speed and your comps only caught up to even a marginal 1% of the listed above speed of a covert ops frigate.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-10-10 16:03:38 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Okay for those you not as well read about as I am about ship technology in eve.

We theorycrafters hammered alot at why the ships in eve are submarinic in nature and come to conclude that we're using a form of purpolsion in common terms would be a "Gravity Pull" drive. In which the drive grabs gravity like a rope and pulls itself along which would limit the maxium speed and why you stop when you cut all power to the engines and then also why exhasut placment has no impact on ship movement as its the core thats responsible for pulling along, and those are juse used for cool and are out of the way of foward sensors as ion discharges can oftenly interfere with readings.

The altenrative however is going to make you go Do'h big time though, the inertia slumps and compensators acting as your counter force to the extreme voilences involed going 0 m/s to 673,191,000,000 m/s in 5 seconds and your compensaters can only counter act so much of that and the mass invovled and slumping it all off would take a life time however its better used as breaks instead of easing up on the slump's load. Also before you go cry BS on that explaintion tell that to Star Trek first the supposive authority on all things science fiction operations (which I hardly give them only a meager 2-5% contribution on, most dominate in diplomacy and social concepts, not so much on technology) , unfourtunately thier interal comps never seem to fail either mid flight. Imagine how horrible that would be if one where to suddenly go out during warp speed and your comps only caught up to even a marginal 1% of the listed above speed of a covert ops frigate.


This had the potential to be a very well thought out post. Unfortunately, it's written for people who have the patience to dissect paragraph-sentences. Also, it's written in terms slightly unclear to anyone who doesn't spend a lot (read: entirely too much) of time dissecting fictional spaceship technology. Also, your grammar seems to be off in a number of very inconvenient places.

This is what I got out of it for the TL;DR crowd:
Eve ships use something he has coined "Gravity Pull" which pulls the ship forward using a gravity well as an anchor. The stresses of going from 0 m/s to 3.0 AU/sec in 5 seconds or less would be too much for any other form of drive. Something about Star Trek.

So it goes.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#47 - 2011-10-10 16:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Thats an extremly very horrible summary.

1. Gravity Drives, the assumed purpolsion means in eve, simply doesn't go to infinity they have a limit on how much gravity the can pull at any given time.

2. Interia Compensators which have to store all of that sudden inertia constantly bleeds inertia forces back out acting as breaks in space.

This doesn't go to explain why we bump off each other instead of massively wrecking. Ill blame data interpentation in the pod not compensating that the ship rapidly altered course at the last second.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-10-10 16:23:37 UTC
A wizard did it.
Di Mulle
#49 - 2011-10-10 16:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Di Mulle
Just one small example of how bad a costs/gain ratio for implementing "realizmus" would be.

Let's say you made a book mark at the planet. It is somewhere at a couple thousands km from the planet under current mechanics. Also let's assume bookmark is linked to the "absolute" coordinate system (and actually it is in-game).
For a slight exaggeration let assume it is an outer planet.

Under "realizmus" your bookmark will be in few tens of thousands of km from a planet in an hour. Pretty significant, if not crucial difference from a gameplay point of view. At the same time, looking from the system point of view, you will hardly notice any change in a position of a planet during an entire lifetime of EVE.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Amro One
One.
#50 - 2011-10-10 16:37:43 UTC
Who let this simpleton post such a topic?

Seeing that he can not read: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=simpleton

A picture for your answer: http://funstoo.blogspot.com/2010/12/this-cat-is-pushing-watermelon-out-of.html
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-10-10 17:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nandy Cocytus
Nova Fox wrote:
Thats an extremly very horrible summary.

1. Gravity Drives, the assumed purpolsion means in eve, simply doesn't go to infinity they have a limit on how much gravity the can pull at any given time.

2. Interia Compensators which have to store all of that sudden inertia constantly bleeds inertia forces back out acting as breaks in space.

This doesn't go to explain why we bump off each other instead of massively wrecking. Ill blame data interpentation in the pod not compensating that the ship rapidly altered course at the last second.


Maybe the problem isn't my interpretation, but rather your presentation of your ideas. Things like "extremely very horrible", "purpolsion", and "interpentation" only reinforce the proposition.

I didn't read this in full, but what I did read was far more coherent than what you wrote. Perhaps you will find it enlightening.

So it goes.

Dunbar Hulan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2011-10-10 18:07:12 UTC
Jessica's Burden wrote:
EVE is about space, and space travel, but it really isn't realistic at all.

Injecting realism
#1 - Everything in space rotates. Moons revolve around planets and planets revolve around stars. How come the moons and planets and asteroid belts are not rotating in their own elliptical orbits? Today, when I fly from gate to station, I fly past the same moon/planet in the same boring position.

#2 - Bumping into things should cause damage. Let's have ships get damage from bumping. This includes warping to '0' and bumping into the gate. Adding the % probability of damage by warping to '0' will make it an interesting choice.
#2a) Bumping into asteroids should cause damage.

#3 - Warping through a planet/moon should cause damage. Combined with item #1, this could lead to some damage to ships during transit of a solar system, if a moon, or planet, happened to be in the path.
#3a) Enable a new class of navigation, by enabling intra solar system waypoints, to navigate through the solar system avoiding warp through planetary bodies.


It is realistic, My room mate Dave tried to round house kick a pirate in null and missed. He never misses. Told him that it was probably due to the pirate moving at 13.5 au.

 ** Manchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius**

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#53 - 2011-10-10 18:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Thats an extremly very horrible summary.

1. Gravity Drives, the assumed purpolsion means in eve, simply doesn't go to infinity they have a limit on how much gravity the can pull at any given time.

2. Interia Compensators which have to store all of that sudden inertia constantly bleeds inertia forces back out acting as breaks in space.

This doesn't go to explain why we bump off each other instead of massively wrecking. Ill blame data interpentation in the pod not compensating that the ship rapidly altered course at the last second.


Maybe the problem isn't my interpretation, but rather your presentation of your ideas. Things like "extremely very horrible", "purpolsion", and "interpentation" only reinforce the proposition.

I didn't read this in full, but what I did read was far more coherent than what you wrote. Perhaps you will find it enlightening.


The link you posted is the actual math that is involved in eve. This answers the question what mostly.

Reason why its very coherent though is its formaility presentation and thought paid to it. I'm just casually responding.

And the answers I give doesnt answer What? but How? and how in a science fictional case is very fictional at times. Currently there are no I-comps, no FTL drives, or gravitmetic decay reactors the Caldari use.

And coherence is relative, there are math idiots out there that wouldnt have an inkling on how to solve sum of those equations presentented and look at that reason with just as much disregard as to the thoery that was discussed on the technological reasons why ships in eve are not newtonian-ish.

Also the article was assembeled in 2011 and wasnt aware of this neat all in one spot blog until you brought it up. The information I presented was dicussed back in 2005-6 and possibly earlier with other posters, I just simply gave a summary of the 20 page conversation.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

GTN
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2011-10-10 19:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: GTN
I proposed this some years ago, the answer was: no.
And btw my ideas were better and more real and not so game-breaking.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-10-10 19:40:19 UTC
Well if the universe of EVE work under real/current scientific theories it would be fun for few people and by few i mean below dozen.

Most people will just destroy all their ships by trying undock/dock Big smile
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#56 - 2011-10-10 19:58:09 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:


And coherence is relative...


How is coherence relative, exactly?

co·her·ent/kōˈhi(ə)rənt/ (of a person) Able to speak clearly and logically.

In other words, able to adhere to the basic laws of spelling and grammar that define a given language. Learn those two things first, then it will be easier to marvel at your genius. I considered taking the time to point out the some 20 examples in your posts in this thread so far, but then I realized I'm not you, and should just unsubscribe to this thread. Which I have.

So it goes.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#57 - 2011-10-10 20:11:36 UTC
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:


And coherence is relative...


How is coherence relative, exactly?

co·her·ent/kōˈhi(ə)rənt/ (of a person) Able to speak clearly and logically.

In other words, able to adhere to the basic laws of spelling and grammar that define a given language. Learn those two things first, then it will be easier to marvel at your genius. I considered taking the time to point out the some 20 examples in your posts in this thread so far, but then I realized I'm not you, and should just unsubscribe to this thread. Which I have.


コヒーレンス is however relevant no matter how you look at it.

How hard is it for you to understand that the fictional reason was previously discussed at length and I presented the summary, your presentation of the actual sense on how the formulas are done are of any closer relevance to the fiction? Its practically on the other side of the same mountain.

Then your butchery which you call a summary performing a paradime shift on the subject, then further more gave me whole credit for something I only participated in.
This probably makes you the worst grammer nanny I had the mispleasure in dealing with considering I had to go back and recorrect your summary. Most nannies get it right to the point I cannot correct them.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Barakkus
#58 - 2011-10-10 21:08:12 UTC
http://youtu.be/sCoHT_cHPzY

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

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