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Blasters, 8 months later
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Sigras
Conglomo
#1 - 2012-07-17 01:49:47 UTC
I began this game in 2007, back then everyone flew blasters with 90% webs, and those ships crushed any fits that tried to do anything different.

Then "need for speed" hit, then the matari guns got buffed; after that only idiots flew blasters; they couldnt get in range, couldnt track when they were in range, took cap and were unable to switch damage types, all of which were remedyed by their minmatar counterparts.

fast forward 3 years or so and blasters receive a buff. extra tracking, extra damage, less cap usage, easier fitting, more agile gallente ships.

Several people claimed that it would not be enough on the forums.

My question to you, where they right?

we've had 8 months to sort out the fits and the new meta game, has the blaster boost been enough?

If not, what would you do to bring blasters up to where they need to be?
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-17 02:08:16 UTC
I think blasters are fine at the moment, plenty of dps when it can be applied... only one thing :P the ships flying them, they could still use some looking at (not the windicator ofc)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-17 02:38:13 UTC
In general, I think they are pretty good now. Mediums (at least) still need a slight tracking boost. They still have tracking issues when orbiting inside their optimal against equal sized ships.

And of course, the ships need a bit of tweaking, but they are working on that.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-07-17 05:26:35 UTC
Blasters are perfectly usable at the moment, although I think most would agree that autocannons are still better. This stems primarily from the fact that no one likes to commit to a fight any more. Also, given that spare high slots are almost always filled with neuts, capless weapons are a huge advantage right now.
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-17 07:55:34 UTC
Hrett wrote:
In general, I think they are pretty good now. Mediums (at least) still need a slight tracking boost. They still have tracking issues when orbiting inside their optimal against equal sized ships.


This is the hallmark of complete piloting failure. Orbiting against equal sized ships in blaster optimal? Do you not like doing full DPS?

Hrett wrote:

And of course, the ships need a bit of tweaking, but they are working on that.


Yes, some medium ships are sub-par since they only have one bonus, and one worthless bonus (rep amount, especially when you tack it on a 5 lowslot ship, is just :worthless:).
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-07-17 08:14:34 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Blasters are perfectly usable at the moment, although I think most would agree that autocannons are still better. This stems primarily from the fact that no one likes to commit to a fight any more. Also, given that spare high slots are almost always filled with neuts, capless weapons are a huge advantage right now.


Well said. A blaster Harpy can hang with pretty much any frig out there in terms of damage output, and it boasts a beefy tank too. An Enyo also kicks ass.

That said, other than those two, I'll take A/C's everyday and twice on Sunday.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7 - 2012-07-17 08:38:02 UTC
maybe blasters are more popular on frigates because basically everyone has to commit to the fight, no matter what frigate youre in?

I always thought that they should switch the damage output and ranges of autocannons and blasters, so blasters are the fight in falloff medium range ships and autocannons are the in your face damage machines.

This would make the ships who dont have to commit (blasters) not fast enough to guarantee an escape and the ships which are fast enough to escape would be forced into a range where they MUST commit.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#8 - 2012-07-17 11:49:13 UTC
Sigras wrote:

This would make the ships who dont have to commit (blasters) not fast enough to guarantee an escape and the ships which are fast enough to escape would be forced into a range where they MUST commit.

When you have to commit, you don't care about being fast or not, because you commit ; your speed is then useless.

Blasters are fine, but railguns need some more tweek I think.
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#9 - 2012-07-17 11:53:45 UTC
Sigras wrote:
maybe blasters are more popular on frigates because basically everyone has to commit to the fight, no matter what frigate youre in?

I always thought that they should switch the damage output and ranges of autocannons and blasters, so blasters are the fight in falloff medium range ships and autocannons are the in your face damage machines.

This would make the ships who dont have to commit (blasters) not fast enough to guarantee an escape and the ships which are fast enough to escape would be forced into a range where they MUST commit.



gallente ships currently are nearly as fast as minmatar ships before you apply any rigs to them.

Blasters have no problems the problem is people are psycological beings taht are affected by the FLAVOR OF THE SEASON effect.

Not so long ago amar were considered oebrpowered and now peopel complain about them being weak.


My low sec character is having quite good results with blasters, but you need to work on the scenarios where you excel, liek small groups and warp the blaster ships after the tackling to land on top of enemy.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#10 - 2012-07-17 14:32:19 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:

gallente ships currently are nearly as fast as minmatar ships before you apply any rigs to them.

TBH this is the only problem with gallente ships; speed penalties, ESPECIALLY on active tanking rigs, have got to go.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2012-07-17 14:36:48 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I began this game in 2007, back then everyone flew blasters with 90% webs, and those ships crushed any fits that tried to do anything different.


Sure blasters were great with the web bonus, but I don't remember anyone actually using gallente ships all that often. All I recall is 300m isk polycarb rigs, gisti a-type mwd crows, and typhoons that went 6 k a second and capped out anything in a minute with heavy nosferatu.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#12 - 2012-07-17 14:43:52 UTC
I enjoy flying my blaster-boats around on my HAC pilot. Always have (2005) and always will. They're just....fun. Something about locking up, cuddling in and orbiting within a spit-on-your-windshield range and slamming Void into another hull....mmm, bliss.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-07-17 16:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Cpt Branko wrote:
Hrett wrote:
In general, I think they are pretty good now. Mediums (at least) still need a slight tracking boost. They still have tracking issues when orbiting inside their optimal against equal sized ships.


This is the hallmark of complete piloting failure. Orbiting against equal sized ships in blaster optimal? Do you not like doing full DPS?

Hrett wrote:

And of course, the ships need a bit of tweaking, but they are working on that.


Yes, some medium ships are sub-par since they only have one bonus, and one worthless bonus (rep amount, especially when you tack it on a 5 lowslot ship, is just :worthless:).


Yeah. That is the point. You don't do 'full' (or close to theoretical - it was like 65% when I ran the numbers witha thorax with electrons orbiting a shield Naga) DPS inside optimal when orbiting with the shortest ranged weapon system. That means orbiting and/or optimal is crap for blaster ships. I guess you can always just approach, overheat and pray (which I do too) but the lack of transversal from orbiting makes blaster ships survivability is even worse.

I guess when the weapon system that (at least I think) was designed to be used in close orbit doesn't really work that well inside it's its close orbit optimal range - then its not really an 'optimal' range any more is it? Its sub optimal. Tracking still needs a slight buff.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-07-17 16:44:23 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I began this game in 2007, back then everyone flew blasters with 90% webs, and those ships crushed any fits that tried to do anything different.

Then "need for speed" hit, then the matari guns got buffed; after that only idiots flew blasters; they couldnt get in range, couldnt track when they were in range, took cap and were unable to switch damage types, all of which were remedyed by their minmatar counterparts.

fast forward 3 years or so and blasters receive a buff. extra tracking, extra damage, less cap usage, easier fitting, more agile gallente ships.

Several people claimed that it would not be enough on the forums.

My question to you, where they right?

we've had 8 months to sort out the fits and the new meta game, has the blaster boost been enough?

If not, what would you do to bring blasters up to where they need to be?



Like it or not here's my opinion:

-Blasters were already good at gate/station camping before the buff

-Blasters got OMGFPWN at gates/station camping after buff

-Frigate sized blasters were already good, meds bad and large meh outside docking/jumping range before buff.
What do we have now?
-OMGFPWN blaster frigates, med sized blasters are still bad except on Proteus because "BONIFACIO" Lol , large ones got usable outside gate/station

What's making them still not my first choice when I undock for solo pvp (live in null)? -because tehre's nothing I do with those I can't do with a shield fitted ship with better engagement options and tanking abilities.

I love my blaster Enyo, just can't get rid of it but then I dock and see my Harpy and suddenly look like a sad panda.

I love Talos, hell such a great ship shield tanked and a pure ganker with an XL-ASB...ho wait, it's supposed to be an armor ship, welp, doesn't matter uses blasters right?

My mega is blastastic!! -when I sit that gate with full bait tank you can be sure I'll always fish something my fellow mates manage to kill, because I'm too slow to ever catch them despite using Null and hitting those trollfaces at 40km
Yep I know I'm doing it all wrong, I'm a noob yadyada, throw me tomatoes if that makes you happy Lol.
Yes I do love a little better my blasters than a few years ago, no they will not be my first choice just because they can spit high dmg at close range, because my first thinking for solo goes to my survivability and apply decent dmg with engagement options, witch blaster ships are bad at.

brb
advii
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-07-17 23:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: advii
Blasters are fine. Maybe not as versatile as the other weapon systems but in the right conditions they do their job excellently. Prime example would be wormholes where the engagement pretty much always starts at 0-5km.

Also, I don't think fat armortanked ships were ever meant to be great solo ships. "Hey I have half the max speed of the enemy and have web/scram fited ccp why I not win kite ships?" Different races and fittings have different roles. If you want to successfully solo you better be fast, agile and have atleast 20km range on your guns.

I do agree the supposedly solo-intended, active tank bonused gallente ships are kind of flawed, though. Most of the things you can catch will kill you if you go toe-to-toe, and most of the stuff you could kill, you can't catch. A slight buff to their velocity, agility or possibly scan resolution would be ok in my book. Also, if you're ever caught by a superior force, which is likely to happen, you have no GTFO ability unless you get lucky with ECM drones. They can still be good (and fun!) if you're lets say 1v2 or 1v3 and they think they can kill you with smaller short ranged ships. You maybe end up killing a couple or all of them before you explode.

I'm sure I fail to see this from all perspectives so feel free to discuss.

AttentionAttention
TL;DR: Armor tank+blasters = often bad for solo, excellent if you have fast/long range tackle in fleet or if you ever plan to PvP in WH space.
AttentionAttention

In other news: Buff the Legion. Thing is essentially a Zealot with more EHP, unless you go HAMs (needs more grid/extra low!)

/incredibly incoherent post Roll
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-18 02:44:22 UTC
Blasters were good before the changes and are even better now.
Not much more to say...

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Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-07-18 11:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Branko
Cpt Branko wrote:

This is the hallmark of complete piloting failure.


Hrett wrote:

Yeah. That is the point. You don't do 'full' (or close to theoretical - it was like 65% when I ran the numbers witha thorax with electrons orbiting a shield Naga) DPS inside optimal when orbiting


I rest my case.

Hrett wrote:

Tracking still needs a slight buff.


No, it does not.

Various blasterboats do need fixes to be better then now, and to make rail configurations make sense, but what it certainly does not need is a tracking buff. People which cannot fly their ships deserve no buffs.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2012-07-18 12:02:12 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I began this game in 2007, back then everyone flew blasters with 90% webs, and those ships crushed any fits that tried to do anything different.

Then "need for speed" hit, then the matari guns got buffed; after that only idiots flew blasters; they couldnt get in range, couldnt track when they were in range, took cap and were unable to switch damage types, all of which were remedyed by their minmatar counterparts.

fast forward 3 years or so and blasters receive a buff. extra tracking, extra damage, less cap usage, easier fitting, more agile gallente ships.

Several people claimed that it would not be enough on the forums.

My question to you, where they right?

we've had 8 months to sort out the fits and the new meta game, has the blaster boost been enough?

If not, what would you do to bring blasters up to where they need to be?


Shield Talos. All I gotta say.... Pirate
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#19 - 2012-07-18 16:07:50 UTC
Cpt Branko wrote:

Various blasterboats do need fixes to be better then now, and to make rail configurations make sense, but what it certainly does not need is a tracking buff. People which cannot fly their ships deserve no buffs.

What exactly would you want from rails? Bear in mind that rails already perform as fine as beams - or equally bad, which is essentially the same in this case.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-07-18 16:31:28 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Cpt Branko wrote:

Various blasterboats do need fixes to be better then now, and to make rail configurations make sense, but what it certainly does not need is a tracking buff. People which cannot fly their ships deserve no buffs.

What exactly would you want from rails? Bear in mind that rails already perform as fine as beams - or equally bad, which is essentially the same in this case.

They're entirely too difficult to fit on most setups.
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