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Pay to win

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EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#401 - 2012-07-17 22:50:08 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:


Can you provide a widely accepted definition of P2W? not the one you share with trollpia and the other guy with an unpronounceable name, in order to have EvE pass as not-P2W.

I googled, and found none set in rock, even soft. I must now assume I was right all along.


The most commonly accepted definition for pay to win is free to play.



Ah, then there's no P2W outside of F2P. That makes sense. A paid advantage is only an advantage in a game with no subscriptions fees.

That makes sense!
EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#402 - 2012-07-17 22:54:10 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#403 - 2012-07-17 22:55:14 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:


Can you provide a widely accepted definition of P2W? not the one you share with trollpia and the other guy with an unpronounceable name, in order to have EvE pass as not-P2W.

I googled, and found none set in rock, even soft. I must now assume I was right all along.


The most commonly accepted definition for pay to win is free to play.



Ah, then there's no P2W outside of F2P. That makes sense. A paid advantage is only an advantage in a game with no subscriptions fees.

That makes sense!

Unsurprisingly, making money by offering items that give an in-game advantage is usually something manufacturers who are not getting an income stream from subscriptions need to do.

This really ought not be a surprise correlation.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#404 - 2012-07-17 22:57:00 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.

Presumably, that would also mean that having an AC is P2W, and eating breakfast is P2W (continue with utterly moronic ideas).
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#405 - 2012-07-17 22:57:45 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You are obsessed with multiboxing bro.

At most, a boosting alt can afford you a ~25% advantage whereas pimping my ship with faction modules I found ratting can give a 50+% percentage advantage.

In both cases, you can acquire the same items, both ways, with in game currency.

Therefore, you are unable to pay money to create a scenario where you are more likely to win, as it does not control what the other guy does.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#406 - 2012-07-17 22:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: EpicFailTroll
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Quote:

Ah, then there's no P2W outside of F2P. That makes sense. A paid advantage is only an advantage in a game with no subscriptions fees.

That makes sense!

Unsurprisingly, making money by offering items that give an in-game advantage is usually something manufacturers who are not getting an income stream from subscriptions need to do.

This really ought not be a surprise correlation.



Wow this is really eye-opening, please carry on!
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#407 - 2012-07-17 22:58:25 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.

Presumably, that would also mean that having an AC is P2W, and eating breakfast is P2W (continue with utterly moronic ideas).

I demonstrated a page ago how by his logic, EvE is a pay to lose game.

He doesn't see it, however.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#408 - 2012-07-17 22:59:17 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Wow this is really eye-opening, please carry on!

By this point, I'm pretty sure you don't even know what your own point was meant to be by now.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#409 - 2012-07-17 22:59:46 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.

Presumably, that would also mean that having an AC is P2W, and eating breakfast is P2W (continue with utterly moronic ideas).


I said that allowing people with additional comps to run additional accounts is P2W, check your facts before you wreck your facts
EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#410 - 2012-07-17 23:01:30 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You are obsessed with multiboxing bro.

At most, a boosting alt can afford you a ~25% advantage whereas pimping my ship with faction modules I found ratting can give a 50+% percentage advantage.

In both cases, you can acquire the same items, both ways, with in game currency.

Therefore, you are unable to pay money to create a scenario where you are more likely to win, as it does not control what the other guy does.


So I cannot spend money on both a boosting alt AND faction modules?

Does the server track where my sold PLEX isk goes?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#411 - 2012-07-17 23:03:50 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You are obsessed with multiboxing bro.

At most, a boosting alt can afford you a ~25% advantage whereas pimping my ship with faction modules I found ratting can give a 50+% percentage advantage.

In both cases, you can acquire the same items, both ways, with in game currency.

Therefore, you are unable to pay money to create a scenario where you are more likely to win, as it does not control what the other guy does.


So I cannot spend money on both a boosting alt AND faction modules?

Does the server track where my sold PLEX isk goes?


Can I not spend isk on both a boosting alt & faction modules?

Yes, the server does track where your PLEX isk goes.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#412 - 2012-07-17 23:04:49 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
So I cannot spend money on both a boosting alt AND faction modules?

Of course you can, in the same way I can spend ISK on a boosting alt AND faction modules.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#413 - 2012-07-17 23:05:09 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.

Presumably, that would also mean that having an AC is P2W, and eating breakfast is P2W (continue with utterly moronic ideas).


I said that allowing people with additional comps to run additional accounts is P2W, check your facts before you wreck your facts


Counter strike is P2W because you can connect HLTV and spectate on your second computer.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#414 - 2012-07-17 23:11:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

Your definition makes every game P2W (defeating the point of a term for it anyway), whereas the one used by myself, Tippia, Malcanus, and a significant amount of others (with mild variations within) makes it not so broad.


So, by buying several copies of Counter-Strike, or any twitch-based game, I can get a significant advantage by running simultaneous accounts? How do I become a mutant?

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.

Presumably, that would also mean that having an AC is P2W, and eating breakfast is P2W (continue with utterly moronic ideas).


I said that allowing people with additional comps to run additional accounts is P2W, check your facts before you wreck your facts

You said:
Quote:
Computers are a factor. Multiplayer games are designed so that lower ends comp can run them as well.

That second sentence implies that a better computer would provide an advantage.

However, if you did not intend for it to be taken that way, I do apologize and will proceed to ignore that line of argument of mine.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#415 - 2012-07-17 23:15:53 UTC
I'd just like to mention that I've followed this discussion closely and it has changed the way I perceive the game, and the motley crew that plays it.

In fact, from this discussion alone, I've been staggered by an epiphany.


Screw Eve. Can't be saved.

I'm going outside. Lol

o7
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#416 - 2012-07-17 23:18:40 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
I'd just like to mention that I've followed this discussion closely and it has changed the way I perceive the game, and the motley crew that plays it.

In fact, from this discussion alone, I've been staggered by an epiphany.


Screw Eve. Can't be saved.

I'm going outside. Lol

o7


Enjoy! :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#417 - 2012-07-17 23:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: EpicFailTroll
Corina Jarr wrote:

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.
You said:
Quote:
Computers are a factor. Multiplayer games are designed so that lower ends comp can run them as well.

That second sentence implies that a better computer would provide an advantage.

However, if you did not intend for it to be taken that way, I do apologize and will proceed to ignore that line of argument of mine.


It implies that since devs are not idiots, they offset the disadvantage that lower end comp users would have should the multiplayer game be resource hungry, by streamlining game clients.
Because they don't want their playerbase to say "OMG this game is only for rich people with high-end gear".

Better comps would be P2W in a sense, if devs didn't prevent it. But hopefully, they do. Because they don't get revenue from comps.

Alts, however
EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#418 - 2012-07-17 23:28:09 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
So I cannot spend money on both a boosting alt AND faction modules?

Of course you can, in the same way I can spend ISK on a boosting alt AND faction modules.


But when you have spent all your isk, and you don't want to spend money, while I'm still willing to?

What then?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#419 - 2012-07-17 23:28:41 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:

You said that a better computer is P2W. Several pages ago.
You said:
Quote:
Computers are a factor. Multiplayer games are designed so that lower ends comp can run them as well.

That second sentence implies that a better computer would provide an advantage.

However, if you did not intend for it to be taken that way, I do apologize and will proceed to ignore that line of argument of mine.


It implies that since devs are not idiots, they offset the disadvantage that lower end comp users would have should the multiplayer game be resource hungry, by streamlining game clients.
Because they don't want their playerbase to say "OMG this game is only for rich people with high-end gear".

Better comps would be P2W in a sense, if devs didn't prevent it. But hopefully, they do. Because they don't get revenue from comps.

Alts, however

Ok cool, won't bother with that bit anymore.
Y'nit Gidrine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2012-07-17 23:33:57 UTC
Since we pay to play, and we play to win, does this mean we pay to win by transitivity?