EVE General Discussion

I see you are banging your head against another brickwall Tippia.


For all intent and purposes, Eve cannot in any way shape and form be a P2W game.

Alts offer no clear adavantage that cannot be gained through having Friends
The arguement for this seems to be a little scenerio hugging. In which the "multi boxer" competes with a solo player. Lets just turn that onto the other foot. How about 3 players competing againt the solo player. Is this P2W. It is 3 accounts after all. Even though each player has only 1 account.

Alts being bought offers no clear adavantage over a character of equal or there abouts Skills
It is a misconception that this is P2W. All you are buying is the "lack of grinding". The character you have purchased has not miracously become invincible or able to fly ships not skilled for. Everything that char can do, can be done on another char given the time. You could also argue that as "alts" are created, and sold as a commodity that are available to any one, it is not entirely "exclusive"

Gear bought offers no clear advantage over someone with same gear gained through grinding.
There is no "gold" ammo in eve.


I would offer you some headache tablets Tippia, but with all the headbanging you done this last year. I should imagine your Brow to be hard as rocks.



o7

Correct.



Also correct.




The same goes for mining, but people still do it. Humans will forever surprise one another.




A boosting alt is an advantage, but it's not an advantage that guarantees a win most of the time. Therefore it is not pay to win, it's pay to have a second account.

Comparing a free to play game that survives solely on it's pay to win scheme to a game that survives on active subscriptions adds no credibility to the argument presented.

Because ultimately, the value of a Plex is honestly not that much. Any big time players in Eve can afford multiple PLEX in a month without too much hassle. Also, the black market ISK trade will always exist. PLEX took something that is impossible to completely remove, and instead transformed it into a way for players who don't want to spend $45 a month to still have multiple alts for recon, trade, production, mining, boosting, whatever. PLEX actually removed a pay2win element from the game by allowing us to use our in game achievements to create and run alts.

Pay to win and alts are two completely different things., how can you even put those two in the same or even similar catagories?

I wasn't aware that guaranteed win was required for something to be 'Pay to Win'. Maybe CCP should revisit some of their old ideas for the NEX store then?



Where did I do this in my post? Are you hallucinating additional comments in my posts or confusing me with someone else?

Reposting this from a couple of years ago (this thread is not new or original)

Think about what happens with the PLEX transaction. The originating player buys a GTC from CCP or some other retailer and redeems it into 2 PLEX. At this point CCP count their product obligation as fulfilled; the player has receive what he has paid for, regardless of what happens to it in the future. So far, this is pretty much identical to any other MT: gief publisher monies = can haz in-game itemz. But what can you actually do with your PLEX?

Well first you can add it on to your own account, which enables you to play the game for another 30 days. Of course this isn't really a MT in any way that people care about, just a slightly roundabout way to pay a subscription, but I presume we can agree that this promotes gameplay, insofar as it means that the original purchaser will play EVE for +30 days.

Secondly, you can sell it to another player for ISK. This is where it gets interesting, and where it starts to look like RMT and so forth. The most important difference is that the ISK exchange is between two players, not between a player and CCP. This sounds too obvious and trivial to be worth mentioning, but so many people don't seem to understand how important this subtle difference is. Player A sells a PLEX to player B for 500M ISK. (In and of itself, this is a player interaction just like any other market trade, BTW) The amount of ISK ingame stays the same. The ISK that player A receives, he receives apparently without doing any work for it, but the important thing is that work was done for that ISK. So player B had to do missions, convert LP, play the Jita market, risk his ship ratting, run a research POS and sell BPCs or do whatever other activity he engaged in to raise that 500M ISK. If Player A wasn't lazy or time-restricted or whatever other reason he'd rather pay $17.50 than make 500M for himself, he would have done all those activities. As it is, Player B did it on his behalf, but those activities still had to take place, with all the normal implications for wider interaction with the EVE economy and community. To the rest of EVE there is no functional difference between player A selling a PLEX to player B, and player A using his ISK making alt A2 to make 500M.

Additionally, the value received is determined directly by player supply and demand. The amount of ISK you can get for your $17.50 is always dynamically set to exactly what the EVE playerbase as a whole thinks it should be. If CCP sold ISK directly, they'd pick a value (and you can bet your ass it would be hilariously wrong) and stick to it .

Conversely, if Player A was simply able to buy ISK directly from CCP then all that activity would not take place. In addition, it is quite possible that Player B simply wouldn't be playing, as for many people, being able to play for free is all that keeps them subscribed. Even if they kept their mains going, the number of "ISK making alts" would plummet, as the Player B's partly have them to pay for PLEX. So Player C cant buy his faction ammo from B, sell his stuff at Jita to B, gank B's ratting Drake or do whatever other interaction might take place, or at least has less opportunity to do so. Player interaction is reduced, player population is reduced, gameplay is reduced.

Additionally, because the amount of ISK you can buy is limited by the amount of ISK that other players are willing to spend on PLEX, there's a hard cap on how much ISK you can buy this way. It's a pretty high cap, but it's there. If CCP sold ISK directly, they'd sell it at the rate which maximised the amount of money people give them, which obviously means that they'd have every incentive to sell it for ever cheaper prices, since they can spawn as much as they want for free. Hello galloping inflation!

I could spend thousands of RL cash on Plexes and still be an amature player. Big Isk may give some advantage, but without the knowledge of how to use the equipment it really is a waste of money.

Jesus this is still going on.


There is nothing in Eve that you cannot buy using ISK so there is no Pay to Win in EVE, enough already.


If you're tried of the grind just get yourself educated and find a better job!

- Before PLEX existed, was EvE P2W, since many people supported multiple alts, just as now?
- Since time is money and grinding takes time, isn't grinding a form of P2W?
- If grinding is a form of P2W, why is it accepted on all mmos?
- If grinding is accepted in all mmos, is it because the upper edge you get through it is somewhat irrelevant, since a single human player can only reliably control one character reliably, however pimped out he is?
- If the free iteration of a formerly paying mmo does now forbid what was -when it wasn't free- allowed before , i.e. simultaneously logged alts that provide an extra edge without requiring interaction, what does it say about the impact the use of simultaneous logged alts have on the game's revenue, and its gameplay?
- Do offgrid boosting alts, and static scouts alts require any interaction other than looking at their respective client?
- You can fund those alts through isk, but can't you also fund them through RL money, which is faster, funnier, and more efficient in the vast majority of cases?

- In Derkastan, you can get a high post in the government, either through giving money to the president (corruption), or working your way up: what is the state of the regime? Is it corrupt? Is it not corrupt? Is the regime the cat of Schrödinger?