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Jurisdiction
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Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#1 - 2012-07-16 22:45:50 UTC
This is just a fun idea for the future of EVE. A ship which can control other ships! Of course there must be a downside to such equipment. A few things Ive come up with to keep such abilities in check:
1. This equipment will allow control of random equipment unless another 'interfacing' device is used


2. The equipment only has about a 50/50 chance of assuming control of another ship


3. You can only control what you have the skills to use (aka. T2 ships and equipment are far less vulnerable than T1)



4. The ship under control can attempt to reclaim equipment by putting online the controlled equipment (this means controlled equipment will appear to be offline), but this also only has a 50/50 chance of success


5. The ship designed to jurisdict is slow, either T2 or T3, and will have a low number of slots (the remaining 8 slots are for the opposing ships equipment to be displayed)



6. Jurisdiction has a medium range but like salvagers the farther away the less likely it can obtain and maintain control



7. Because the ship is being remotley targeted technically it can fire upon itself when under control, however A SHIP CANNOT USE REMOTE DEVICES ON ITSELF! So all remote devices on the controlled ship being used on the controlled ship will not have their effect on the ship but will all cause the cpu to overload thus resulting in the ship being damaged. Therefore the ship attempting to shoot itself will take the same amount of damage as if it were attempting to warp scramble itself.


8. Adding a skill which protects you from jurisdiction might be a good idea as well



9. Lighting onboard a ship which is being influenced by a Jurisdictor will change color, this marks ships which are being attacked.


10. It plays by all the same rules as normal E-war, this means a Supercapital is immune to jurisdiction


Please be constructive! Obviously I dont expect to see this ingame anytime soon and balancing all of these aspects will be a challenge. However I believe it would add and interesting twist to combat! Im also sorry if this idea has already been posted
Fairren
HellrisCorp
#2 - 2012-07-16 22:58:45 UTC
We are Harbinger. Assuming control



because someone else would post it
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-07-16 23:00:17 UTC
This is different...


It would likely not work for player ships. A person being tied to two ships (and a ship being tied to two players) would make the hamsters very upset.


But its not a terrible idea... very different...
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#4 - 2012-07-16 23:16:56 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
This is different...


It would likely not work for player ships. A person being tied to two ships (and a ship being tied to two players) would make the hamsters very upset.


But its not a terrible idea... very different...


I prefer to think of it less like having control of two ships, but more like forcing you opponent to refit their equipment onto your ship.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#5 - 2012-07-16 23:30:19 UTC
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
This is different...


It would likely not work for player ships. A person being tied to two ships (and a ship being tied to two players) would make the hamsters very upset.


But its not a terrible idea... very different...


I prefer to think of it less like having control of two ships, but more like forcing you opponent to refit their equipment onto your ship.

Doesn't matter how you think of it. Only matters how the server reacts to it.

The server would have to recognize you controlling a ship being piloted by another player. This would cause major issues (same reason we don't have ships that carry players around, like buses).
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#6 - 2012-07-17 02:54:18 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
This is different...


It would likely not work for player ships. A person being tied to two ships (and a ship being tied to two players) would make the hamsters very upset.


But its not a terrible idea... very different...


I prefer to think of it less like having control of two ships, but more like forcing you opponent to refit their equipment onto your ship.

Doesn't matter how you think of it. Only matters how the server reacts to it.

The server would have to recognize you controlling a ship being piloted by another player. This would cause major issues (same reason we don't have ships that carry players around, like buses).


What if the server made the situation like a refitting. So the server treats it as if the equipment is being transferred between the ships. You are literally stealing the equipment. And every time the player turns on the equipment it sends the server a request to switch the ships to their original fit. Our whenever the player moves out pf a certain radius it also sends a request. Of course this leaves the problem of what if someone with a jurisdictor has a buddy who can then unfit the equipment from them. But I guess the server could recognize that the equipment is in possession of another player and can prevent this from happening? I don't mean to argue, but I'm trying to see if there is a solution to that problem. Correct me if I have something wrong.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-17 03:45:33 UTC
Fairren wrote:
We are Harbinger. Assuming control



because someone else would post it



I can see someone typing into local while locking on, "This will hurt you, Shepard."
Marcus Ichiro
IchiCorp
#8 - 2012-07-17 04:32:51 UTC
I really don't see this working at all. Any game mechanic which takes 100% control away from a player is straight away a terrible idea.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-07-17 07:37:47 UTC
Marcus Ichiro wrote:
I really don't see this working at all. Any game mechanic which takes 100% control away from a player is straight away a terrible idea.

I vote the module be labelled "borg."

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#10 - 2012-07-17 13:52:12 UTC
Marcus Ichiro wrote:
I really don't see this working at all. Any game mechanic which takes 100% control away from a player is straight away a terrible idea.

If you read #4 the opponent still has the ability to reclaim equipment from a Jurisdictor, and a Jurisdictor can only control a small portion of a ship. Small ships which have more to lose when facing a Jurisdictor, can also easily out run a slow ship. Jurisdiction cannot tamper with throttle control either so it is not a substitute for points.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2012-07-17 14:21:20 UTC
what is this i don't even

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#12 - 2012-07-17 14:40:31 UTC
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that a ship can only control 4 or 5 devices at a time. XD I do agree total control of all the equipment on an opposing ship is overpowered!
FireT
Venom Pointe Industries
#13 - 2012-07-17 15:26:53 UTC
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that a ship can only control 4 or 5 devices at a time. XD I do agree total control of all the equipment on an opposing ship is overpowered!


They would have to be randomly chosen. This would still wreck merry hell on the server to constantly fit and refit ships.
So, based on simple server side: no thank you. The lag fest this might create is horrendous.
But from an entertaining idea: this would be like playing

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8#q=simon+says+game&hl=en&prmd=imvnsa&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=ToQFUI_uKoH89gS754X3Bw&sqi=2&ved=0CJABELMY&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=76963ba7bcc1eb5e&biw=1024&bih=485
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#14 - 2012-07-17 18:25:39 UTC
thanks for all the feedback guys! Seems lag is the only thing that prevents this from being reasonableSad. If there was a device which allows the user to pick and choose what equipment they control it could be a 'null only' thing. I think it is still a fair thing to have because while it vastly increases the power of the tool it also costs another slot (something which a Jurisdictor should not have much of). If the ship only has 4 slots then to use the 2 devices together leaves only 2 slots for weaponry!
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-07-18 18:21:48 UTC
Wouldn't make sense to me for it to have guns.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Equus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-07-18 18:45:06 UTC
This is a bad idea all around, sure it sounds fun, and you try and balance by saying things like "it can only take over so many controls" ... I am sorry that is still all sorts of wrong. How much of an "I WIN" button is that? Target ship, get control of all tanking, pop ship, rinse and repeat. Even with your idea of giving people a 50/50 chance to regain control they will go pop long before they get control of the needed mods.

Then the idea of only controlling what you have the skill to use, really? How much of a disadvantage would this put all newb and low SP characters at, they would be sititng ducks every time and if they even thought about trying it out themselves, unless they come up against another newb they will not be able to control anything. Well, most anything, not all ships are t2 fit, but many are and if it helps as a defence against being controlled many more will t2 fit just to combat it.

Crowd control effects have always been a massive issue in MMO's, anything that prevents a player from doing anything has always been a huge sticking point. No one likes to lose the ability to control and/or defend themselves, it has always, and will always be a bad idea.

I am sorry, and I mean no offence, but this is a terribly overpowered idea no matter how much sugar you try and coat it with and in no way, shape or form should ever be implemented in Eve.

Just ... no ...
Lili Lu
#17 - 2012-07-18 20:40:46 UTC
Equus wrote:
. . .Just ... no ...

Agreed. This would be worse than ecm currently is.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-07-19 00:59:31 UTC
Equus wrote:
This is a bad idea all around, sure it sounds fun, and you try and balance by saying things like "it can only take over so many controls" ... I am sorry that is still all sorts of wrong. How much of an "I WIN" button is that? Target ship, get control of all tanking, pop ship, rinse and repeat. Even with your idea of giving people a 50/50 chance to regain control they will go pop long before they get control of the needed mods.

Then the idea of only controlling what you have the skill to use, really? How much of a disadvantage would this put all newb and low SP characters at, they would be sititng ducks every time and if they even thought about trying it out themselves, unless they come up against another newb they will not be able to control anything. Well, most anything, not all ships are t2 fit, but many are and if it helps as a defence against being controlled many more will t2 fit just to combat it.

Crowd control effects have always been a massive issue in MMO's, anything that prevents a player from doing anything has always been a huge sticking point. No one likes to lose the ability to control and/or defend themselves, it has always, and will always be a bad idea.

I am sorry, and I mean no offence, but this is a terribly overpowered idea no matter how much sugar you try and coat it with and in no way, shape or form should ever be implemented in Eve.

Just ... no ...

To expand a little, train a character in the skills to use the ship and any tanking mods only, no weapons. So you only ever get control of their defence.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Herr Hammer Draken
#19 - 2012-07-19 07:27:20 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Equus wrote:
This is a bad idea all around, sure it sounds fun, and you try and balance by saying things like "it can only take over so many controls" ... I am sorry that is still all sorts of wrong. How much of an "I WIN" button is that? Target ship, get control of all tanking, pop ship, rinse and repeat. Even with your idea of giving people a 50/50 chance to regain control they will go pop long before they get control of the needed mods.

Then the idea of only controlling what you have the skill to use, really? How much of a disadvantage would this put all newb and low SP characters at, they would be sititng ducks every time and if they even thought about trying it out themselves, unless they come up against another newb they will not be able to control anything. Well, most anything, not all ships are t2 fit, but many are and if it helps as a defence against being controlled many more will t2 fit just to combat it.

Crowd control effects have always been a massive issue in MMO's, anything that prevents a player from doing anything has always been a huge sticking point. No one likes to lose the ability to control and/or defend themselves, it has always, and will always be a bad idea.

I am sorry, and I mean no offence, but this is a terribly overpowered idea no matter how much sugar you try and coat it with and in no way, shape or form should ever be implemented in Eve.

Just ... no ...

To expand a little, train a character in the skills to use the ship and any tanking mods only, no weapons. So you only ever get control of their defence.


Drop their shields those asb shields gone! I like it.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#20 - 2012-07-19 20:34:00 UTC
Reading the comments I'd like to update the drawbacks:



To start, a common problem is the fact that a player is losing control of the ship and this is a poor game mechanic. So the opposing player will have a 100% success rate at reclaiming all equipment in one slot type from a Jurisdictor by putting online 1 device in that row: This means that if you have a shield tank and a Jurisdictor has turned off all of your tank, by onlining 1 device in the mid-slot row all devices in that row have now been freed from the Jurisdictor.



Another problem is that if a Jurisdictor has control of your tank it is likely that you will be dead before you can re-activate anything. I like the idea that Jurisdictors have no turret/ launcher hardpoints. Also the overload damage is minor 50-200 EM/ TH dps. And a Jurisdictor can have battlecruiser-like or even cruiser-like tanking ability eventhough it would probably be a T3 Battlecruiser or T2 (tier3) Battleship.



The last problem is that this ability puts new players at a huge disadvantage. Making it so that Jurisdiction can only be used in low sec. can prevent it from becoming a huge problem to the noobs. Also Jurisdiction that can make selective choices about what it is controlling only occurs in null sec. and requires a 2nd (probably expensive) device.



For all you nay sayers I'd like to point out that the price and skill set required will scale with the power of the ship (I'd say it'd start at 3B) and that would be the ship alone. This also means that it will only grab the attention of veteran pilots who would crush new/ low sp players anyway. If it has low tanking ability and low dps output then even though it can make a fleet incredibly strong, it is almost harmless by itself in anywhere but null and can be quickly removed from the situation in any place. In the end It isn't cheating if everyone does it!
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