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Critical application is [EVE Online] - building new machine but what kind?

Author
ashley Eoner
#21 - 2012-07-16 20:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
fenistil wrote:
Dear Capsuleers,

I have decided that it is finally time to upgrade my PC.
Unfortunately performance/money value is very important to me. Having a computer that runs at least 2 EVE clients very smoothly is a must.

The first question I would have is what sort of configuration you have got and what is your EVE experience with it on single and dual clients.

I am also clueless what sort of CPU to buy. AMD or Intel. Since AMD is somewhat cheaper for the same CPU benchmark value, I am considering it; however to reach the same score the CPU needs to have 2-4 more cores than an Intel CPU (which are always more expensive).

Since I know that EVE uses stackless python, an interpreted language thus limited to a single core, the question arises: is it worth having fewer but higher performance cores (Intel) than many smaller performance ones (AMD).
Even though I guess EVE uses threads and process in the background (that can be parallelized and thus making many cores useful), I am no 100% sure.

When you run EVE, how many of your cores are being utilized by it of the total number of cores of your machine?

Also any advice what to pay attention to when building the machine is much appreciated. Memory, GPU, Mainboard, HDD etc..
Actually the first thing you should do is setup a budget because computers are just like racing. How much you got depends on how fast you can go.

Eve will run on about anything that isn't a decade out of date. I run a client fine on my "server" which is just an e4400 (12 bucks ebay) OCed to 2.7ish ghz (OCed 1066 FSB) with 4gb of ddr3 and an intel GMA x4500 integrated GPU for graphics. 500GB SATA for games/OSes along with various older IDE drives. Runs SWTOR rift and even terra well at various graphics settings. Runs eve pretty well on medium settings at 1280x1024. When running games I boot it into a 32bit XP install.

My main machine is years old but still working fine it's an e7200 OCed to 3.2ghz with 4gb of ddr2 (OC 1600mhz) an asus xonar sound card a 5770(1gb) OCed by a bit with a speedy 1TB drive for system/games. Runs eve on high settings at 1920x1200 and 1280x1024 (dual monitor setup). I usually run one client on each screen in window mode but sometimes I'll run a third with the settings for that client set to memory. Runs win 7 pro 64 bit.

I highly recommend you consider getting a sound card if you are an audiophile or if you run a very good stereo/headphone setup. I output my computer into a vintage stereo receiver with the A channel powering two floor standing three way speakers with 12" woofers while the B channel feeds a signal into an old(talking 90s A/B regulated) PPI powerclass PC2150 amplifier which powers an alpine type R 12 in a sealed enclosure. The PPI amplifier is powered by a 650 watt PSU that I rebuilt myself with some upgraded components. Switching from on board sound to the asus Xonar was like night and day when it came to frequency response (flatter and extends farther) and overall music itself sounds much more alive and punchier.


I build computers to supplement my repair income and I can honestly say right now Intel has the bang for the buck over AMD but NVidia and ATI are neck and neck. Ignore the folks that pops in to scream how NVIDIA RULES ATI SUCKS or vise versa because they are just mindless fanboys not interested in helping you get the biggest bang for the buck but instead are invested in their "team".


EDIT : I've ran eve on about every machine I build as part of my testing. I've ran it on everything from one of the new pentium G series processors to an ivy bridge i7 (triple graphics card beast) along with a varied mix of graphics cards and I can say solidly that ATI cards preformed just as expected with Eve and I NEVER noticed high temps when running eve. So I have no idea what is up with all the fanboys in this thread but they aren't helping. Now as for the ones that mentioned temperature issues I'd suggest you either buy a better case or make a habit to thoroughly clean your computer at least once every two weeks.
Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#22 - 2012-07-16 21:54:17 UTC
If it is only for a handful of accounts just go with as good of Quad Core CPU as you can with 8 gigs of RAM and GPU that meets your personal performance criteria. You can get all of that easy well shy of 1k. If you care less about graphics and more about performance then skimp a bit on the GPU in favor of CPU. AMD is fine all around.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#23 - 2012-07-16 22:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
If you lack money but have time go AMD + ATI - used to use it for quite some time when I went to to Uni and was chronically short on cash.

After that, I soon switched to intel/nvidia as I lacked time and motivation to investigate random crashes just to save a few bucks. No problems ever since and I'd never go back gain.

- If you're poor, have a basic clue and plenty of time, go AMD.
- If you have some clue, a little money surplus and little time/nerve to fix issues, go intel (Windows).
- If you don't have a clue, don't care about money and want your system idiot-proof, go intel (Mac OS).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#24 - 2012-07-16 22:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ignore the folks that pops in to scream how NVIDIA RULES ATI SUCKS or vise versa because they are just mindless fanboys not interested in helping you get the biggest bang for the buck but instead are invested in their "team".


EDIT : I've ran eve on about every machine I build as part of my testing. I've ran it on everything from one of the new pentium G series processors to an ivy bridge i7 (triple graphics card beast) along with a varied mix of graphics cards and I can say solidly that ATI cards preformed just as expected with Eve and I NEVER noticed high temps when running eve. So I have no idea what is up with all the fanboys in this thread but they aren't helping.


Like people have said, the processor will have to do the physics calculations if you're using an ATI card. If you have multiple cores (think four is a standard nowadays) and a high end processor, then yeah, that helps. Still, a modern Nvidia card will have ~380 cuda cores or more and it will have dedicated physics processors. Why would you insists doing things the hard way? Just so you can call anyone who disagrees "a mindless fanboy?"

I mean it's all the same to me what card you use, but it's pretty much a proven fact that CCP & Nvidia have somesort of partnership between them, and to the OP EVE is the critical app they want to run - then perhaps he or she should choose an Nvidia card. Sure it can be done on an ATI card, but again - why make things harder for oneself just to be a special snowflake?
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-07-16 22:27:35 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
If you lack money but have time go AMD + ATI - used to use it for quite some time when I went to to Uni and was chronically short on cash.

After that, I soon switched to intel/nvidia as I lacked time and motivation to investigate random crashes just to save a few bucks. No problems ever since and I'd never go back gain.

- If you're poor, have a basic clue and plenty of time, go AMD.
- If you have some clue, a little money surplus and little time/nerve to fix issues, go intel (Windows).
- If you don't have a clue, don't care about money and want your system idiot-proof, go intel (Mac OS).


I've never heard anything good about running eve on a MAC OS.

Just sayin.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#26 - 2012-07-16 22:53:47 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
I've never heard anything good about running eve on a MAC OS. Just sayin.



Hmm - yeah - that last bit was a more general notion.

However, the fact you heard nothing good about Eve on Mac OS may relate to the fact that except some very old, nerdy apple II veterans, apple users today usually are computer-illiterates just barely managing to click a yes button when prompted.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#27 - 2012-07-16 23:48:03 UTC
I am part of that group that hate compatibility issues, so I subscribe to the more common setups are the safer ones rule. CCP have made it very clear that they side with NVidia, and more people seem to run Intel. I also believe Windows 7 is the most common OS. The only issues I have had are minor graphical ones probably from my GT 8800 which is about 6 years old, and I most likely will replace it with a 560 which is a very popular card.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#28 - 2012-07-17 00:28:15 UTC
fenistil wrote:
Dear Capsuleers,

I have decided that it is finally time to upgrade my PC.
Unfortunately performance/money value is very important to me. Having a computer that runs at least 2 EVE clients very smoothly is a must.

The first question I would have is what sort of configuration you have got and what is your EVE experience with it on single and dual clients.

I am also clueless what sort of CPU to buy. AMD or Intel. Since AMD is somewhat cheaper for the same CPU benchmark value, I am considering it; however to reach the same score the CPU needs to have 2-4 more cores than an Intel CPU (which are always more expensive).

Since I know that EVE uses stackless python, an interpreted language thus limited to a single core, the question arises: is it worth having fewer but higher performance cores (Intel) than many smaller performance ones (AMD).
Even though I guess EVE uses threads and process in the background (that can be parallelized and thus making many cores useful), I am no 100% sure.

When you run EVE, how many of your cores are being utilized by it of the total number of cores of your machine?

Also any advice what to pay attention to when building the machine is much appreciated. Memory, GPU, Mainboard, HDD etc..

I have an i7 3930k, Asus extreme9 mobo, 32gb of gskill ddr, a single (for now) 4gb gtx680, two 240gb OCZ SSDs and a built in penis extender.

It runs Eve ok.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

ashley Eoner
#29 - 2012-07-17 01:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Teinyhr wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ignore the folks that pops in to scream how NVIDIA RULES ATI SUCKS or vise versa because they are just mindless fanboys not interested in helping you get the biggest bang for the buck but instead are invested in their "team".


EDIT : I've ran eve on about every machine I build as part of my testing. I've ran it on everything from one of the new pentium G series processors to an ivy bridge i7 (triple graphics card beast) along with a varied mix of graphics cards and I can say solidly that ATI cards preformed just as expected with Eve and I NEVER noticed high temps when running eve. So I have no idea what is up with all the fanboys in this thread but they aren't helping.


Like people have said, the processor will have to do the physics calculations if you're using an ATI card. If you have multiple cores (think four is a standard nowadays) and a high end processor, then yeah, that helps. Still, a modern Nvidia card will have ~380 cuda cores or more and it will have dedicated physics processors. Why would you insists doing things the hard way? Just so you can call anyone who disagrees "a mindless fanboy?"
If you're using an nvidia card then part of it's processor is used up calculating the physx so in the end you're either sacrificing some CPU or some GPU cycles. Just because NVidia is involved doesn't mean that suddenly physx runs for free. I've known people in the past who used an old nvidia card just for the physx (the difference wasn't worth the effort). People have already been proclaiming all over this thread that eve doesn't hit the CPU very hard at all. So think about what you're trying to argue for a moment. Only a fanboy(girl) wouldn't know how something as basic as Physx works.

Quote:
I mean it's all the same to me what card you use, but it's pretty much a proven fact that CCP & Nvidia have somesort of partnership between them, and to the OP EVE is the critical app they want to run - then perhaps he or she should choose an Nvidia card. Sure it can be done on an ATI card, but again - why make things harder for oneself just to be a special snowflake?
Harder? How? Do you actually know how little of a difference physx makes? Have you developed with it? You're advocating that you're making it harder on yourself even if you're buying the superior performing card because it doesn't have a nvidia label? Really?



EDIT : At this very moment on my main machine I'm running dual clients one on each screen at high settings in the captains quarters and EVE is only using about 70% CPU combined for both accounts(total CPU usage is about 80%). On the secondary machine with the settings on medium it's using about 55% of the CPU.. CQ being the heaviest hitting aspect of this game as when I'm in space it's not uncommon for cpu usage to drop to below 15% for each client (sits about 30% total). I'm running CPUs and in one case a CPU with integrated graphics that are several generations out of date and I'm still not using the CPUs to their max.


CCP would never be so dumb as to make the game unplayable with ATI cards. That's a simple fact of the gaming and business worlds.


EDIT 2 : I forgot to make fun of your comparison of a general usage CPU with 4 cores to a cuda GPU which uses parallel optimized cores. IT's like comparing apples to oranges. All cores are NOT created equally and anyone with a passing knowledge of the computer industry wouldn't buy into marketing hype where a higher number is ALWAYS BETTER!!!


EDIT 3 : Due to poor choices by AMD the biggest bang for the buck across the spectrum of CPUs is Intel. Even a low end sandybridge i3 will eat a phenom II x4 BE up until you start seriously OCing. The new FX chips are completely overpriced and under-effective. Hell even the sandybridge G series pentiums will eat pricier AMD CPUs in benchmarks. AMD is being completely dominated by Intel and it's a sad statement about the company when it's old generation Phenom II x4 black editions (when they can be found) are still being used over their new FX chips.

It's too bad too because AMD used to be the one you'd look for when you were looking for bang for the buck.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#30 - 2012-07-17 12:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
ashley Eoner wrote:
.......


Did an Nvidia employee drive over your dog or something? You seem disproportianetly upset about people suggesting the OP to take an Nvidia card. Just curious why that is. You haven't even suggested an ATI card for the OP to get as far as I can see, being busy making fun of my post.

But okay. Fiddling around with this tool actually looks like 560 Ti is great value for money (ca. $230 on Amazon). Of course those figures in the site are all just reported manufacturer numbers and there are other things to consider for game performance than just GPU, but the specs seem to be (if at times marginally I admit) superior to anything but the top of the line ATI cards, and certainly in the mid-price range it is one of the best cards out there.
Note, I don't have the time nor patience to price check and compare every card on the list, so you're free to prove me wrong if you do have these qualities I lack.

EDIT: Well I found one card... And if you absolutely positively must have an ATI card you might want to look at Radeon HD 6950 2GB. Looks to have better specs on paper and depending on manufacturer can even be some tens of dollars cheaper than 560 Ti.
Amenotep Polo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-07-17 12:40:20 UTC
This thread is tells the tale of how a humble question from a confused player turned into a massive epeen contest.
Togg Bott
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-07-17 12:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Togg Bott
Newegg. i recently bought ( last 30 days) a GT520 NVidia based vid card for $49.00. yes it was on sale but still a deal that cant be beat with a massive stick. added that to a ANCIENT dell running a e7800 cpu (dual core not core2 dual). i run 2 clients at near max settings at around 50 FPS each.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-07-17 12:54:26 UTC
I'm running eve on a ~350€ laptop with the following settings:

AMD C60 / AMD Radeon Mobility HD6290 / 4 GB DDR3 RAM / Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit.

I can run 1 client smoothly with all graphics settings high without aa, 2 clients runs okay with low graphics setting. I doubt it can run two client in major fleet battles, but if you are just mining or running missions it does a decent job.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

ashley Eoner
#34 - 2012-07-17 23:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Teinyhr wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
.......


Did an Nvidia employee drive over your dog or something? You seem disproportianetly upset about people suggesting the OP to take an Nvidia card. Just curious why that is. You haven't even suggested an ATI card for the OP to get as far as I can see, being busy making fun of my post.

But okay. Fiddling around with this tool actually looks like 560 Ti is great value for money (ca. $230 on Amazon). Of course those figures in the site are all just reported manufacturer numbers and there are other things to consider for game performance than just GPU, but the specs seem to be (if at times marginally I admit) superior to anything but the top of the line ATI cards, and certainly in the mid-price range it is one of the best cards out there.
Note, I don't have the time nor patience to price check and compare every card on the list, so you're free to prove me wrong if you do have these qualities I lack.

EDIT: Well I found one card... And if you absolutely positively must have an ATI card you might want to look at Radeon HD 6950 2GB. Looks to have better specs on paper and depending on manufacturer can even be some tens of dollars cheaper than 560 Ti.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension..

I'll ask again for the OP to present a budget for this build because as I mentioned earlier computers are a lot like racing. How much money you have determines how fast you can go.

You can pick up a GTX 560 TI for about 205 bucks after rebate at this very moment on a very popular online site for buying computer hardware. At the same site you can pick up a 7850 for a few bucks more (4) and frankly the performance gain over the 560 is well worth it (even at the usual 20ish dollar spread the 7850 is better bang for the buck).

Personally if I was the OP I'd jump on the HIS 7870 with rebate for 270 bucks (299 w/ free shipping). You're not going to find a better performer for that price and HIS is reliable. XFX's 7870 card is 280 bucks if you prefer their warranty.

Hopefully Nvidia will get the issues sorted with their Kepler chip design soon so they'll stop recycling old chips in "new" cards..
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