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Gate Camping (Choke Entry Points) Discourages entering LoSec/Null
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Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-07-16 15:48:21 UTC
While I can certainly see that making entry into losec would increase the population and so the targets there and I can see where you are coming from on that point, I've never had a problem getting into losec through a gate camp in a frigate or destroyer. Maybe I've never run into that legendary insta-locking gate camp. On the otherhand I don't bring anything bigger than a destroyer or a very fast aligning cruiser in, which leaves out losec mining or mission running for me. I fly solo so I'm not going to be taking on the gate camp. The camps I worry more about are the ones between losec and nullsec, nullsec entry points are usually camped and frequently bubbled. I have to say some of my most adrenaline filled times in game have been escaping those bubbled camps though. Once you are past the entry pont into null its hit or miss which gates are camped, just warp to a planet near the gate you are going to and you can scan the gate for any campers or bubbles, bubbles are the chief concern since you can warp to zero otherwise and insta jump through.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-07-16 15:49:53 UTC
I like how your solution to raise the population of lowsec is to make it even less appealing than it already is. Seriously, if the idea of a lowsec gate camp is such an obstacle that you can't think of any way around it other than to get it nerfed, you're not at all ready to leave highsec, and you're probably barely fit to be playing this game at all.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-07-16 15:51:44 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Heres an idea... Get in a ship and kill the people gate camping?


HUUURRRRRDUUURRRRRRWHOWUDATHOUGHTDURRRRRR


really? They have alts in every system and will see a fleet coming from several jumps away. When that happens, they slip into their orcas and move to hi-sec

there are many gay related aspects to Eve but hi-sec gate camping has to be at the top of the list
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#84 - 2012-07-16 15:52:52 UTC
Lord Drex wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Only been into low-sec twice, once to 0.0 and did not see anyone enroute and once through a gate camp in a shuttle guess they were getting bored as they were so slow to react, only one even bothered to try and target me and he started that too late.


Shuttles make my whole point!
Who wants to pvp with shuttles and covertops?

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.

If the spawn campers can't handle the slightest challenge then at least NCP null gates should have proximity ship count alerts before jumping. It's NPR space so go sown camp your own sov space.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

Big smile


Proximity counts: Awesome idea. Heck even if DSCAN could tell me how many were on the other side...
Lord Drex
Nada Logi
#85 - 2012-07-16 15:53:26 UTC

Quote:

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null.


Then screw them. Low/null is for the adventurous and less risk-averse among us, not the timid. The timid should stay in high sec or play a game more to their liking.

Quote:

The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.


This is wrong on all levels. "Change" is not needed, "GOOD Change" is welcomed. "More people" isn't always better.

"EVE is hard" is not herp derp, it's WHY people like me play the game.

Why must EVERY game have mass appeal, can we not have one game, just one good, harsh nichce game out of the thousands of themparks that exist, that doesn't try to "make it all better" for everyone?
[/quote]


Look at growth stats, not returnies that will just leave again, look at new blood stats!

Evolve or in time LOTRO will be your only choice. Games fade when only the old have a voice.
Arcueid Saber
Legio XCIX CA
#86 - 2012-07-16 15:53:31 UTC
You can light a black op bridge in high sec right? complete by pass the gate camp or you can make a player service out of it at busy camp gate.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#87 - 2012-07-16 15:54:56 UTC
Lord Drex wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Only been into low-sec twice, once to 0.0 and did not see anyone enroute and once through a gate camp in a shuttle guess they were getting bored as they were so slow to react, only one even bothered to try and target me and he started that too late.


Shuttles make my whole point!
Who wants to pvp with shuttles and covertops?

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.


You have a fighting chance, it's called a friend to scout you, or an alt to scout you, or jump in with a ship that can handle the situation, OR DON'T JUMP.

But you don't like those options, you want ccp to change the game to "give you a chance". This is why people like me dislike the idea. WE adapted (through trial and error, patiently training skills or making frineds) to the situation as is, you can (and shold have to) too.

Quote:

If the spawn campers can't handle the slightest challenge then at least NCP null gates should have proximity ship count alerts before jumping. It's NPR space so go sown camp your own sov space.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

Big smile


So, you want ccp to change the game, but it's the rest of us who can't figure out another way even though we've suggested numerous ways to beat of get past gate camps?

That is just pure brilliance. The problem is us, or ccp, or the game itself, NOT you. I should have realized lol.

Simply, what you want and why you want it is wrong for the game. I find gate camping and suicide ganking general boring and distasteful, but it's a part of the game so so be it.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#88 - 2012-07-16 15:55:58 UTC
Zyress wrote:
While I can certainly see that making entry into losec would increase the population and so the targets there and I can see where you are coming from on that point, I've never had a problem getting into losec through a gate camp in a frigate or destroyer. Maybe I've never run into that legendary insta-locking gate camp. On the otherhand I don't bring anything bigger than a destroyer or a very fast aligning cruiser in, which leaves out losec mining or mission running for me. I fly solo so I'm not going to be taking on the gate camp. The camps I worry more about are the ones between losec and nullsec, nullsec entry points are usually camped and frequently bubbled. I have to say some of my most adrenaline filled times in game have been escaping those bubbled camps though. Once you are past the entry pont into null its hit or miss which gates are camped, just warp to a planet near the gate you are going to and you can scan the gate for any campers or bubbles, bubbles are the chief concern since you can warp to zero otherwise and insta jump through.



This is one of the biggest issues. Ships that can get past a LOWSEC camp are either too small to do much in the way of Exploration, Complexes, Anoms or they cost 1 billion plus, or take a year to skill properly (Strategic Cruisers, Mauraders, etc).

Need fast align, or cov-ops cloaky, or ability to tank 3+ ships or need to abuse the MWD trick (which can fail, albeit rarely).
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#89 - 2012-07-16 15:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lord Drex wrote:

Look at growth stats, not returnies that will just leave again, look at new blood stats!

Evolve or in time LOTRO will be your only choice. Games fade when only the old have a voice.


I do wish CCP would sticky a post called "tired old arguments that have been debunked by reality" or something.

EVE is still growing, it has and will always grow slowly because people with the actual STOMACH for this kind of game are few and far between. You don't go changing a a niche game to cater to "more people" without destroying what makes it unique in the 1st place.

And for the record, I'd rather EVE die than go all hand-holding themepark. Earth needs at least ONE video game for people with actual low hanging (damn filter) testicles...
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#90 - 2012-07-16 16:07:53 UTC
Lord Drex wrote:
Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.


You've already been told the answer, and you just dismissed it as 'not involving radical enough changes'. The answer is the star map. That's your fair warning. That's what gives you a chance. That's what allows even solo people under a year old to navigate nullsec. If you want to encourage people entering nullsec, then encourage them to use the star map.

Quote:
I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd


Dude, you're the one not wanting to learn to use this game feature that should be about as important to you as your directional scanner.

This video is titled 'Finding fights with the map'. What you can find, you can also avoid. If you want some practice with it, try getting to Venal and then Stain without running into a gatecamp. If you do the pirate epic arcs (involving Curse and Venal), you'll get paid a good sum of isk to do this.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#91 - 2012-07-16 16:13:00 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Lord Drex wrote:
Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.


You've already been told the answer, and you just dismissed it as 'not involving radical enough changes'. The answer is the star map. That's your fair warning. That's what gives you a chance. That's what allows even solo people under a year old to navigate nullsec. If you want to encourage people entering nullsec, then encourage them to use the star map.

Quote:
I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd


Dude, you're the one not wanting to learn to use this game feature that should be about as important to you as your directional scanner.

This video is titled 'Finding fights with the map'. What you can find, you can also avoid. If you want some practice with it, try getting to Venal and then Stain without running into a gatecamp. If you do the pirate epic arcs (involving Curse and Venal), you'll get paid a good sum of isk to do this.



Map data is not accurate enough nor up to date enough for LOWSEC. Kills *in system* and jumps *in system* in the past hour/24hr is not enough knowledge in lowsec transitions. In LOWSEC gates can be camped non-stop 24/7. Immediate data would help reduce risk on sneaking through when an opening occurs. In NULL you can find systems that have had no jumps in the past 24 hours all over the place. This is not the case in lowsec. LOWSEC is divided into small chunks with many jumps/kills and way more transition gates from HI to LOW.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#92 - 2012-07-16 16:24:29 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Map data is not accurate enough nor up to date enough for LOWSEC.


If you're trying to get through Rancer or Amamake Roll

My default strategy with lowsec is to warp through it, gate-to-gate, without thinking of self-defense at all, because it's that safe.

Quote:
In LOWSEC gates can be camped non-stop 24/7.


They can be, but whether they are or not is not the result of a dice roll. It's the same people doing the same thing in the same system with the same off-grid boosters. And constant gate camps are quite visible on the map. Try using "average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes", and, given suspicious locations, check their recent killmails on dotlan.
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#93 - 2012-07-16 16:32:50 UTC
I would tend to agree that the current mechanics does not really need to change. The cloak +MWD trick is effective enough.

However, I would find it extremely cool if concord (or the faction navy) would randomly patrol lowsec.

My idea in detail: Jumping trough a gate they (concord or navy) would wait 30 sec till they take any actions. If they find a player with lower sec status than -5 they will start shooting at him/her until the player warps off or are destroyed. If they find a player with a global criminal countdown in system they will (after 30 sec) try to warp scramble that player. If the player is waiting the GC tag to go away somewhere in the system they will give chase.

A gate camp could easily avoid the patrol, but a cunning player could use the patrol to fly through the camp. Even better, the player could gamble on that the patrol will jump after him/her and jump through the gate, get the campers to agress and then scramble as many as possible and tank the campers till the patrol jumps through and finishes of the camp, however the patrol might not jump through in time or even warp off to a different gate...

Sounds like good fun to me.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-07-16 16:34:05 UTC
I like how the high sec dweller falls into the usual selfish, self-centered stereotype. Eve is a sandbox, if you don't like players doing something... stop them. Why are you folks always incapable of helping yourselves? You always run to CCP, begging them to nerf something, instead of taking care of the problem on your own.

You don't want gates camped? Stop thinking only about yourself for once, stop thinking about Eve as a solo venture for once, make some friends and go blow the campers up. It really isn't hard: something fast to scout the camp, something tanked to hell to bait them, a black bird tailored for their ships and some dps. Boom, boom, boom, dead pirates. They're just as cowardly as you are; they'll be too busy trying to flee to fight back effectively.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#95 - 2012-07-16 16:35:00 UTC
J'as Salarkin wrote:
I would tend to agree that the current mechanics does not really need to change. The cloak +MWD trick is effective enough.

However, I would find it extremely cool if concord (or the faction navy) would randomly patrol lowsec.

My idea in detail: Jumping trough a gate they (concord or navy) would wait 30 sec till they take any actions. If they find a player with lower sec status than -5 they will start shooting at him/her until the player warps off or are destroyed. If they find a player with a global criminal countdown in system they will (after 30 sec) try to warp scramble that player. If the player is waiting the GC tag to go away somewhere in the system they will give chase.

A gate camp could easily avoid the patrol, but a cunning player could use the patrol to fly through the camp. Even better, the player could gamble on that the patrol will jump after him/her and jump through the gate, get the campers to agress and then scramble as many as possible and tank the campers till the patrol jumps through and finishes of the camp, however the patrol might not jump through in time or even warp off to a different gate...

Sounds like good fun to me.



This idea I really like. I have always felt that people with crappy sec ratings should not be able to continue douchebaggary in the same spot for 12 hours straight (like gate camping).
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-07-16 16:36:59 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:


This idea I really like. I have always felt that people with crappy sec ratings should not be able to continue douchebaggary in the same spot for 12 hours straight (like gate camping).


They only do that because none of you nut up and kill them.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#97 - 2012-07-16 16:40:26 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
I like how the high sec dweller falls into the usual selfish, self-centered stereotype. Eve is a sandbox, if you don't like players doing something... stop them. Why are you folks always incapable of helping yourselves? You always run to CCP, begging them to nerf something, instead of taking care of the problem on your own.

You don't want gates camped? Stop thinking only about yourself for once, stop thinking about Eve as a solo venture for once, make some friends and go blow the campers up. It really isn't hard: something fast to scout the camp, something tanked to hell to bait them, a black bird tailored for their ships and some dps. Boom, boom, boom, dead pirates. They're just as cowardly as you are; they'll be too busy trying to flee to fight back effectively.


OK, on that line of thought then I would simply ask for KILL RIGHTS on anyone who has gate camped in the past 24 hours. ANYONE. Also, I want KILL RIGHTS on anyone with security rating more than 4 points below my own (and negative). EVERYWHERE.

Fair? You see, not all of us want our security rating to go to ****. Some of us actually want certain characters of ours to be on the good guy side of the game...
Commander Spurty
#98 - 2012-07-16 16:47:28 UTC
- Stations
- Belts
- Planets / Moons / Stars
- Customs offices
- Missions / Anomalies / Beacons
- Probed down Safe spots
- Wormhole entrance / Exits
- Most importantly, Gates

There is an order here of frequency of getting into / forcing a fight.

Gates are head, shoulders, cheese and toast above the rest.

Going to a gate, expect a fight and plan accordingly!

As already mentioned, you can 'think' your way out of most fights, but takes preparation and stepping down your dps potential at times.

The dumbest, but most prepared answer here is 'bring 10 x more people with you, willing to fight than are camping the gate'. Rarely fails.

Don't want to be the dumbest (but most prepared)? Don't go to a gate with a camp in it unless you have a way to deal with bubbles / being locked.

Compared to State Issue Faction Fit unscouted Ravens, Cloaky Nulified tengus breeze along very easily.


There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#99 - 2012-07-16 16:47:34 UTC
Lord Drex wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Why do people always QQ about gate camp? you have a f10 option you can use or a jump clone or you can make a sec char without skills and go trou that gate and see if there is a camp lol. There are so many options that will help you even i remeber correct there are some warning chats also. Use your brain people. Gate camp is the less problem in zero sec the scary shoot everything people thats the problems in low sec.


Spoken by an old character that missed the point. This is about getting interaction. As usual the oldies can't think of change.

Change, evolve, make eve better for new players to pvp



Assuming you ARE new, then I would advise you to learn how to use the avoidance list in your star map when planning a route to low/null. As someone else already mentioned, there are ways into null/low that don't force you into gate camp choke points. You just need to know by experience where/what those choke points are and how to re-route around them. For example. One route could be 22 jumps, through a chokepoint/gatecamp system. then an alternative route could get you quietly, around these points, to your destination for the additional price of about 8-10 jumps usually. Avoidance list is key and knowledge is your best friend.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2012-07-16 16:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsus Zateki
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
I like how the high sec dweller falls into the usual selfish, self-centered stereotype. Eve is a sandbox, if you don't like players doing something... stop them. Why are you folks always incapable of helping yourselves? You always run to CCP, begging them to nerf something, instead of taking care of the problem on your own.

You don't want gates camped? Stop thinking only about yourself for once, stop thinking about Eve as a solo venture for once, make some friends and go blow the campers up. It really isn't hard: something fast to scout the camp, something tanked to hell to bait them, a black bird tailored for their ships and some dps. Boom, boom, boom, dead pirates. They're just as cowardly as you are; they'll be too busy trying to flee to fight back effectively.


OK, on that line of thought then I would simply ask for KILL RIGHTS on anyone who has gate camped in the past 24 hours. ANYONE. Also, I want KILL RIGHTS on anyone with security rating more than 4 points below my own (and negative). EVERYWHERE.

Fair? You see, not all of us want our security rating to go to ****. Some of us actually want certain characters of ours to be on the good guy side of the game...


You don't get security rating hits for blowing up people in 0.0 space. And the vast majority of lowsec campers you're whining about are already -5.0 or lower anyway, so you don't get a security rating hit for blowing them up either. Any other excuses for not taking care of these guys yourself?

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.