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Gate Camping (Choke Entry Points) Discourages entering LoSec/Null
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Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#61 - 2012-07-16 14:56:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:


Not asking CCP to make things easier. I am asking them to put RISK on the side of the gate campers. Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole, let them scan down their prey. Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight. Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping? Stop trying to twist this into some kind of "I am awesomer conversation, get skills".

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily. Hiding behind the "dont make it easier" is laughable. I want it to be HARDER on the gate camper because they have little risk.

HARDER, not easier.


If you make it "harder" for "campers" you make it easier for people to jump blindling into less safe space, thus making the overall game easier. That is non-sense and against the nature of the game. I make it harder for campers BY KILLING THEM.

I don't gate camp, I find it boring. In fact I prefer to hotdrop gate campers and just last week finished training an alt to fly a Panther with a Covert portal (my main flys a Redeemer for such drops, the covert portal is so we can bring along bombers and recons too). Hell, I've been Titan Bridged onto Gate camps more times than I've actually gate camped lol.

So no, you can't pin that "I'm just defending my gate camping play style" on me. What I am defending is the Spirit of EVE. Gate camps are a (crappy) part of life, you either learn to deal with it or you stay in high sec (and complain on the forums).

I don't get mad at people doing things I don't like, I get even, come back with friends and bust that camp. Asking for the GAME to change rather than adapting to the game itself is an example of the whiney entitlement carebearism I crusade against.

Gate Camping might be silly, complaining about it is worse lol.



Why am I not surprised that you argue from the vantage point of being able to hotdrop? A player under 1 year experience is not likely to have access to such tools, even with friends as most cyno-capable corps and alliances require 10 million sp for consideration. You are viewing the world through an isk-filled wallet and the convenience of already having years of skill points.

I first jumped into low at around 3 million sp on my main. I didn't learn to pass through with relative ease until 5 million sp and by using a scout. I couldn't do anything useful once over there until 8 million sp and even then, with great risk of isk loss.

Do I think hotdropping gate camps is hilarious? Yes. Do I think it is a fair fight? Yes. Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null. The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.
Lord Drex
Nada Logi
#62 - 2012-07-16 14:57:35 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
How about you find some friends instead and go start shooting these people ?

Stupid.


Anger management issues aside, it about getting more into null DF

As for reality, anyone noob can find a null corp to join, sure.

The point AGAIN, is to get interaction that woks both ways. Spawn camping is for the weak and of course drunk. The drunks I don't mind. Hey it's a handicapped camp and that's cool by me lol
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#63 - 2012-07-16 14:57:40 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


This guy wants tanking in the form of "no guns, no tank, no cloak, no speed". It already exists: it's called not jumping unprepared. A properly prepared freighter will have an easier time jumping through lowsec than an unprepared drake. You can't deny that.


No, he doesn't. Don't make **** up.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-07-16 14:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.


I think you need to elaborate on this point some more because I'm not seeing it.

To be clear. Someone else has already pointed out that during transition you are cloaked. It's not like they instantly pop you before you can see what's going on. Someone who has prepared with the right equipment will either wait for an opportunity to burn back to gate or or burn away/cloak up and warp off.

There are plenty of organisations recruiting low skilled players for lowsec/nullsec experience. They just have to look for them. This game rather surprisingly requires social interaction for success.
Alara IonStorm
#65 - 2012-07-16 15:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Danny Diamonds wrote:

Are you saying it is too much work to actually have to hunt down infiltrators and fight them in a fair fight?

If you hunt them down yes it is a fair fight with exactly the same numbers as on a gate.

If they are camping a low sec gate as pirates they have the Gate Guns to deal with and you can jump a scout through and see what they under gate cloak have before engaging them.

You have a greater combat advantage on a gate then they do.
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#66 - 2012-07-16 15:08:08 UTC
Look, this is my honest opinion...

Lowsec gatecamps are like a college initiation, it is a test of skill, a trial by fire to separate the "worthy" from the 'unworthy".

I usually have no problems at all with Lowsec Campers, I typically can fly right through them. I don't even require much in the way of special modules... but it does take preparation.

I do a fair amount of Lowsec PI farming for example, and I use a standard Badger II.
I rarely get caught by the Gate Camps because I mount Warp Stabs in the Low Slots, Agility rigs, and a modest tank.
I don't fly untanked, max cargo capacity haulers.

Once I'm clear of the Gate, I am very rarely pursued, even though I'm in Local, with Hostiles, and not cloaked.

..

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#67 - 2012-07-16 15:11:18 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


This guy wants tanking in the form of "no guns, no tank, no cloak, no speed". It already exists: it's called not jumping unprepared. A properly prepared freighter will have an easier time jumping through lowsec than an unprepared drake. You can't deny that.


No, he doesn't. Don't make **** up.


Your trolling shows otherwise. Being untanked and gunless should never be a reason to make gatecamps "harder". If anything, it should always make gate camping easier. In other words, working as intended.
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-07-16 15:13:40 UTC
Everybody blobs...

Except me of course, but I fit my Revelation with Cargo Bay Expander I's.

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#69 - 2012-07-16 15:15:04 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:

Are you saying it is too much work to actually have to hunt down infiltrators and fight them in a fair fight?

If you hunt them down yes it is a fair fight with exactly the same numbers as on a gate.

If they are camping a low sec gate as pirates they have the Gate Guns to deal with and you can jump a scout through and see what they under cloak have before engaging them.

You have a greater combat advantage on a gate then they do.


Current gate gun dps is silly. If it were higher, it may mean something. As of right now it is way too easy to tank.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#70 - 2012-07-16 15:15:17 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
Lowsec gatecamps are like a college initiation, it is a test of skill, a trial by fire to separate the "worthy" from the 'unworthy".


Like most college initiations, it's less about skill or worth and more about acting like idiots together. Lowsec gate camps usually amount to a bunch of guys sitting on a gate and waiting for hapless victims to wander through and get ganked. Most of them can't even decloak someone and instead resort to whining in local and on the forums about how the cloak + mwd trick needs to be nerfed. Nevermind that they could have easily decloaked you in the 10 seconds of MWD cycle.

Diablo Ex wrote:
Once I'm clear of the Gate, I am very rarely pursued, even though I'm in Local, with Hostiles, and not cloaked

What? Get off the gate, where you can't immediately flee from a superior force? Perish the thought.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#71 - 2012-07-16 15:15:44 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


This guy wants tanking in the form of "no guns, no tank, no cloak, no speed". It already exists: it's called not jumping unprepared. A properly prepared freighter will have an easier time jumping through lowsec than an unprepared drake. You can't deny that.


No, he doesn't. Don't make **** up.


Your trolling shows otherwise. Being untanked and gunless should never be a reason to make gatecamps "harder". If anything, it should always make gate camping easier. In other words, working as intended.



No guns and untanked? What the heck are you talking about? Stop making **** up.
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-07-16 15:19:01 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Current gate gun dps is silly. If it were higher, it may mean something. As of right now it is way too easy to tank.

This I agree with. I always thought that their damage should scale with ship size. So little frigates can effectively speedtank them but a battleship would have less then a minute before it's tank was overwhelmed.

Frigate fights, best fights

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-07-16 15:20:11 UTC
He's ignoring me. Does that mean I won?
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#74 - 2012-07-16 15:23:03 UTC
Kyle Ward wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Current gate gun dps is silly. If it were higher, it may mean something. As of right now it is way too easy to tank.

This I agree with. I always thought that their damage should scale with ship size. So little frigates can effectively speedtank them but a battleship would have less then a minute before it's tank was overwhelmed.

Frigate fights, best fights



I would actually prefer a shorter arrival cloak (just enough to deal with zone loading and lag on arrival side) but more beefy guns. I like your line of thinking here that would still allow for small ships on gate.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#75 - 2012-07-16 15:28:17 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:

No guns and untanked? What the heck are you talking about? Stop making **** up.


For your convenience, here are some things your said earlier:

Danny Diamonds wrote:

Instead of camping a gate and mindlessly playing whack-a-mole

Danny Diamonds wrote:

Make them get off their security blanket of abusing the gate jump mechanics and actually engage someone who is ready for a fight.

Danny Diamonds wrote:

Whats the problem, you don't want to be shot back while camping?

Danny Diamonds wrote:

It is pathetic how gate campers want to sit in a low risk area and shoot fish in a barrel that cant shoot back as easily


All these quotes imply the victim either has no tank and/or no guns. If this was not your intention, perhaps you should learn this language before you use it.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#76 - 2012-07-16 15:31:15 UTC
Yes, Hi-to-Lo and Lo-to-Nul transition gates are dangerous.

No, you're not likely to be able to do much about campers, unless you're willing to put forth an organized effort.

No, you don't need to be intimidated.


Plan of action: Get a n00bship and blank clone. Crash the gates. Die in a fire. Do it again. And again. Do it until you learn how NOT to die in a fire. Now get a stack of cheap but combat-capable frigates (I favor Kessies), and do it again. Learn your lessons.

I regualrly penetrate lo- and nul-sec boundaries - I often go streaking through dangerous space like cat on fire, and I generally DON'T die... Partly because I've lost my fear of dying or losing a ship, and partly from sheer practice.

You can lose your fear of the boundary transitions, too.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-07-16 15:34:59 UTC
Only been into low-sec twice, once to 0.0 and did not see anyone enroute and once through a gate camp in a shuttle guess they were getting bored as they were so slow to react, only one even bothered to try and target me and he started that too late.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#78 - 2012-07-16 15:43:19 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:


Why am I not surprised that you argue from the vantage point of being able to hotdrop? A player under 1 year experience is not likely to have access to such tools, even with friends as most cyno-capable corps and alliances require 10 million sp for consideration. You are viewing the world through an isk-filled wallet and the convenience of already having years of skill points.


Whatever did I do 5 years ago before I was in a null sec allaince. could it be I made friends who would jump through and chase off the camp.

You need x amount of skill pints to make friends. I have my social skills to 5 because it helps me talk to real life people LOL.


Quote:

I first jumped into low at around 3 million sp on my main. I didn't learn to pass through with relative ease until 5 million sp and by using a scout. I couldn't do anything useful once over there until 8 million sp and even then, with great risk of isk loss.


So what is the problem?

Quote:

Do I think hotdropping gate camps is hilarious? Yes. Do I think it is a fair fight? Yes. Do I think it is good for player retention to let gate campers sit on a gate and farm ships that have a disadvantage due to the nature of the zone transition? No.


#1. Hotdropping is not the only solution. The problem is people aren't looking for solutuions, they are looking for anti-EVE "fixes". This is dumbing down the game.

#2. I don't give a flip about player retention. Who needs players/opponents that are stupid and can't adapt. Making a game high on "player retention" means thempark/WOW types stuff.

No thanks, I'll take EVE player quality over other games player quantity anyday. CCP needs subs, I don't.

Quote:

I want players to have a chance to see other aspects of the game. Many are not as adventurous as those of us who have spent time in Low/Null.


Then screw them. Low/null is for the adventurous and less risk-averse among us, not the timid. The timid should stay in high sec or play a game more to their liking.

Quote:

The "EVE is hard herp derp" mantra is over used and childish. Well no shyte, it is hard? Wow, I haven't heard that 1,000 times. What has been tried, has thus far failed to get more players into lowsec. Change is needed.

Changes do not mean it gets easier. Make it harder on gate campers in HI-LOW transitions.


This is wrong on all levels. "Change" is not needed, "GOOD Change" is welcomed. "More people" isn't always better.

"EVE is hard" is not herp derp, it's WHY people like me play the game.

Why must EVERY game have mass appeal, can we not have one game, just one good, harsh nichce game out of the thousands of themparks that exist, that doesn't try to "make it all better" for everyone?
Togg Bott
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-07-16 15:43:38 UTC
of all the things that could be fixed,modified,tweaked, or out right changed. you had to pick a system that is actually fine and working as intended to whine about?

get friends, send scout in, bust gate camp apart ,???, profit !

couldnt be more simple if CCP tried for months.
Lord Drex
Nada Logi
#80 - 2012-07-16 15:48:03 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Only been into low-sec twice, once to 0.0 and did not see anyone enroute and once through a gate camp in a shuttle guess they were getting bored as they were so slow to react, only one even bothered to try and target me and he started that too late.


Shuttles make my whole point!
Who wants to pvp with shuttles and covertops?

Give me fighting chance or fair warning at entry points.
... And in return null gets newer people that have a chance to get in.

If the spawn campers can't handle the slightest challenge then at least NCP null gates should have proximity ship count alerts before jumping. It's NPR space so go sown camp your own sov space.

I know, here come the cries of outrage from the same old same old, don't know how to do it any other way crowd

Big smile