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Killing Miners - Now I get it
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#61 - 2012-07-14 14:43:34 UTC
I'm a little jelly.

My son is a platform junky and my daughter only plays boys.

I've tried to get them into EVE over the years but they just won't bite.

Mr Epeen Cool
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#62 - 2012-07-14 15:55:08 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
OP is wrong. It's much more complicated. To gank a miner you have to queue skills for like a week, earn few millions to equip destroyer by finishing simple starter quest arc, watch couple of videos.

7 y.o. child can't do that. Only 10 years old.


Blah next week the dad is going to post a vid of the 7 year old's 5 year old sister mining the moon goo which bought the gank ship & prove the mental age of Goons' typical Hulkageddon ganker Blink



So how does it feel to let everyone know that you know nothing about moon mining?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#63 - 2012-07-14 16:34:22 UTC
Did anyone actually look at the kill mail? It was a damned retriever a stiff fart and those things blow up.


Extra points if you tell me how the heck your supposed to tank a retriever?
Pipa Porto
#64 - 2012-07-14 18:53:25 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

As for shooting skill, sure, it doesn't take skill to press F1, but that's beside the point. The thing that makes EvE and Hunting thinking man's activities is the work that goes into preparing for that shot. The shot/gank is mechanical, and doesn't require any significant thought. The preparation is what requires the thought.

sure.
fitting catalyst by fits from internet needs lots of thinking man activities
warping to belt (where the f... is it again??? Shocked) needs lots of ....

Pipa Porto wrote:

The guy I was replying to was complaining that the video was evidence of EvE being dumbed down.

problem is: he is right. ganking is simple too easy. And CCP does lots of work towards making it more easy and simple.

Pipa Porto wrote:

Since the video didn't show any of the preparatory work (the part that isn't a simple mechanical skill), the video is not evidence of anything of the sort.

well. maybe you are right here and buying ship/modules + fitting it by pictures from internet is real complex task.... Shocked


1. It's likely that the preparatory work is something that the 7 year old would be unable to accomplish on their own.

2. When has CCP made ganking easier? Name one time that ganking got an overall buff (Crucible gave it a big nerf to go along with its small buff, btw)

3. Then you could argue that just about all PvP is dumbed down. You could train a 6 year old to follow an FC's commands in about the same amount of time as it takes to teach her how to gank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#65 - 2012-07-14 18:53:55 UTC
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the kill mail? It was a damned retriever a stiff fart and those things blow up.


Extra points if you tell me how the heck your supposed to tank a retriever?


Right click station: Align.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tesal
#66 - 2012-07-14 21:31:18 UTC
All threads like this do is give positive feedback to gankers. They will get bored and go back to doing other things besides ganking eventually, but not if they keep getting validation. Threads like this drag it out and make things worse, not better.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-07-14 23:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
dexington wrote:
Insure you ship and fit defensibly, but the most important rule is always if you can't afford to lose it don't fly it.

In eve a fool and his ship are soon parted ;)


Ever tried to insure T2 ship? You should try it sometimes. Totally worth it.

Not. Works only with T1 hulls.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#68 - 2012-07-14 23:23:36 UTC
NullGain wrote:
This video from another post says it all.

Ganking Miners - So easy a 7-year-old can do it, (while being coached)

So this is what is considered a challenge in EVE these days. This is why people log in? To do something a 7 year old can do having never done it before! And they say Carebears aren't playing the game and EVE has a high learning curve

Forget all those cool videos about building empires, building ships... save yourselves time and money and just show this video for promo from now on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Pathetic


I agree that there's definately some asymetry in the risk/reward for hi-sec mining as compared to everything else in the game atm. I think CCP had some plans to bring mining ships more in line with the cost/risk/reward balance of the other game mechanics with some revamps stats/hulls. At least that's the rumor.

yk
Pipa Porto
#69 - 2012-07-14 23:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
dexington wrote:
Insure you ship and fit defensibly, but the most important rule is always if you can't afford to lose it don't fly it.

In eve a fool and his ship are soon parted ;)


Ever tried to insure T2 ship? You should try it sometimes. Totally worth it.

Not. Works only with T1 hulls.


If you're bothered by low insurance payouts, don't fly T2. There are very few things that T2 ships can do that T1 can't. Of the top of my head, the list is "Warp Cloaked" and "Do stuff with Covert Cynos," and the ships used for those things tend to be relatively cheap for the rate they're lost.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#70 - 2012-07-14 23:53:11 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
NullGain wrote:
This video from another post says it all.

Ganking Miners - So easy a 7-year-old can do it, (while being coached)

So this is what is considered a challenge in EVE these days. This is why people log in? To do something a 7 year old can do having never done it before! And they say Carebears aren't playing the game and EVE has a high learning curve

Forget all those cool videos about building empires, building ships... save yourselves time and money and just show this video for promo from now on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Pathetic


I agree that there's definately some asymetry in the risk/reward for hi-sec mining as compared to everything else in the game atm. I think CCP had some plans to bring mining ships more in line with the cost/risk/reward balance of the other game mechanics with some revamps stats/hulls. At least that's the rumor.

yk


No, that's the plan.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-07-14 23:53:56 UTC
My thoughts exactly, OP. I think that is the reason most skilled pvpers stay away from EVE, they have too many ways that allow awful players to get kills.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#72 - 2012-07-14 23:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andoria Thara
YuuKnow wrote:
I agree that there's definately some asymetry in the risk/reward for hi-sec mining as compared to everything else in the game atm. I think CCP had some plans to bring mining ships more in line with the cost/risk/reward balance of the other game mechanics with some revamps stats/hulls. At least that's the rumor.

yk

Not a rumor, there's already been a dev blog about it.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72890

Edit: Looks like Ranger1 beat me to it.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#73 - 2012-07-15 00:31:49 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
No, that's the plan.


Cool. Like the fact that CCP ship designs are now finally looking decent as well, rather than the flying-vomit-buckets of the old designs.

yk
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-07-15 00:39:50 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you're bothered by low insurance payouts, don't fly T2. There are very few things that T2 ships can do that T1 can't. Of the top of my head, the list is "Warp Cloaked" and "Do stuff with Covert Cynos," and the ships used for those things tend to be relatively cheap for the rate they're lost.


Of course this doesn't bother you because you get everything you need free from moons.

And me wants 70km neut to Arbitrator!
Pipa Porto
#75 - 2012-07-15 01:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you're bothered by low insurance payouts, don't fly T2. There are very few things that T2 ships can do that T1 can't. Of the top of my head, the list is "Warp Cloaked" and "Do stuff with Covert Cynos," and the ships used for those things tend to be relatively cheap for the rate they're lost.


Of course this doesn't bother you because you get everything you need free from moons.

And me wants 70km neut to Arbitrator!


Yes, Waffles's many Tech moons do pay for our much vaunted "0% and &^*$ you for asking" SRP program. Roll

T2's major drawback is its increased price. If insurance were a similar payout to T1, a lot of that drawback would disappear. Besides that, T2 has always not been worth insuring, even before Dominion.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#76 - 2012-07-15 03:29:23 UTC
Henry Kaine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Wrong lesson learned.

The point is that some EVE players are so bad that even a 7 year old can out play them. Blink


Exactly. If you're going to play the game in such a way that leaves you open to getting raped by a 7 year old, you deserve it. It is your fault.


I propose a new mining class ship, no tougher than a current day hulk (if fitted well) but with a couple slots for small class "point defence" guns. Currently every mining ship regardless of fittings is capable of being shot and killed with the victim having no chance to really fight back. The best one can hope for is to do maybe 200dmg back with thier drones unless we're talking insta kill with t3's.

Im fine with highsec ganking and im fine with the idiots flying paper ships burning.

I do kinda get sick of the "getting raped" and the overall concept that all miners are bots or bludgers however. I put in about 100 times more training time into my hulk than the next alt in a catalyst, I really need my proposed point defense barge to show them too. TBH i'd rather a couple small guns than the upcoming hp changes. An unarmed barge still cant fight back, it can just get shot at a little longer. Everyone knows gankers run after they pull the hit, theyre not that daft so by the time a (human) barge victim gets to station and reships, the ganker has left the system - hardly leaves room to avenge the act.
Pipa Porto
#77 - 2012-07-15 03:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Aramatheia wrote:
Henry Kaine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Wrong lesson learned.

The point is that some EVE players are so bad that even a 7 year old can out play them. Blink


Exactly. If you're going to play the game in such a way that leaves you open to getting raped by a 7 year old, you deserve it. It is your fault.


I propose a new mining class ship, no tougher than a current day hulk (if fitted well) but with a couple slots for small class "point defence" guns. Currently every mining ship regardless of fittings is capable of being shot and killed with the victim having no chance to really fight back. The best one can hope for is to do maybe 200dmg back with thier drones unless we're talking insta kill with t3's.

Im fine with highsec ganking and im fine with the idiots flying paper ships burning.

I do kinda get sick of the "getting raped" and the overall concept that all miners are bots or bludgers however. I put in about 100 times more training time into my hulk than the next alt in a catalyst, I really need my proposed point defense barge to show them too. TBH i'd rather a couple small guns than the upcoming hp changes. An unarmed barge still cant fight back, it can just get shot at a little longer. Everyone knows gankers run after they pull the hit, theyre not that daft so by the time a (human) barge victim gets to station and reships, the ganker has left the system - hardly leaves room to avenge the act.


What you're asking for already exists. The Rokh and Apoc can both sacrifice some Miners to put Guns on. And the Rokh mines about the same amount as a Covetor.

Aside from that,

Tank your Hulk and you can't be profitably ganked.
Use ECM drones, and you have a good chance of stopping a gank.

Bring a Friend. Bring a Friend. This is a Multiplayer Game, Bring a Friend. And have them Blap the GCCd Catalysts.

(If you want to be able to reship and avenge yourself, you need to be somewhere where CONCORD doesn't do that for you automagically)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#78 - 2012-07-15 03:40:24 UTC
I do believe its because its easy;
Plus, every Hulk ganked gets Goons and OTEC more money lol

Oh yeah its also risk averse lol

(for there to be a risk there has to be a chance something it NOT lost. If its a definite loss, its not a risk, its an expense)
The only risk is you failing and as the video shows, even a 7 year old can do it lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Dairy Product
Freerange Fedo Milks and Yogurts
#79 - 2012-07-15 04:01:32 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:

I mean, there is now way around it, suicide-ganking is easier and cheaper than mining. If you guys do it because it fun, so be it, this is EVE and I ain't gonna hate, but dont try to convince us its a challenging thing to do. Come on.

It might be "easy" if all you do is load two destroyers with blasters and pray that it will do enough damage to kill a miner.

Some of us are a little bit more careful though, and cover our bases for the sake of the challenge among other things. When I decided I was going to start ganking ships, I went into excel to start a calculator that was general enough to accomodate for different weapon types and hull resistances etc.

I've gone so far now that I calculate shield and armor repped and regen between each volley so I know down to the tenth of a second how much time it will take to kill a given hull - basically I've recreated every calculation that happens in game when a weapon hits a ship of a given profile.

And thanks to the helpful resource of Tippia I know the times for each security system and can thus enter in just a few values to solve for the minimum amount of DPS (and the em/therm/kin/exp profile) needed to kill any sort of ship in high sec before CONCORD jams me.

Sure all of what I did is not necessary for a gank - but I do this type of thing because EVE inspires me to do so, and that's why I love this game.

In conclusion, I wanted to make clear that belittling others doesn't do much except make you more susceptible to the clever ones that you've overlooked because of a need to emotionally cope.

Expect every miner to have a well-fitted Hulk with 30k EHP. Expect every ganker to have done the math with extreme rigor.

Once you expect the most of your enemies, you'll be able to enjoy one of the best fruits of fierce competition - respect for a good opponent.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#80 - 2012-07-15 04:03:52 UTC
Dairy Product wrote:


for the sake of the challenge


Yeah they say that in WoW too and my friend's daughter was playing that at 6

"for the sake of the challenge" that a 7 year old can do... some challenge

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.