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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Range and Fall off

Author
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#1 - 2011-10-07 20:49:54 UTC
Okay, old noob here and I ahve decided to actually, after all these years, to actually plan my ships because I am tired of spending all my hard earned ISK on things that go bang in the night.

I am looking at the range of an Auto-Cannon I here on EFT and I see that the range is 0.8+5.5

Do I take this to mean that the effective range is 800m and then the next 5,500 metres has half damage?

Thanks in advance but, for once, I want to go into New Eden with at least a bit of a clue as to what's going on.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Raendel
#2 - 2011-10-07 21:15:13 UTC
Hello. I have no idea what the numbers "0.8+5.5" mean.

Generally speaking, the range on Auto-Cannons is usually fairly short: Optimal range in the 500-1000 range, Fall-Off in the 5000-7500 range.

Accuracy Fall-Off has an indirect relationship with damage. The relationship is as follows:

As your accuracy decreases, you miss more.
When you miss more, you do less damage overall.

Optima Range is the range at which the weapon performs at it's peak.
Anything outside of the Fall-Off range will be able to evade your weapons more often.

Note, however, the if you take into account the tracking speed of your turrets, often times your true optimal range for any given target (say a Frigate vs a Cruiser) will be different than what your weapon lists. For instance, my Stabber has the highest accuracy vs Frigates at exactly 1000m past Fall-Off.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein

Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#3 - 2011-10-07 21:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kilrayn
No, optimal + 1 falloff range (add both numbers together) is your sweet spot. Past the next fall-off (only add falloff range), you hit about 50%, and beyond the 3rd fall-off, pray real hard.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears

Raendel
#4 - 2011-10-07 21:27:32 UTC
Optimal + 1 what? 1 meter? 1 klick?

For someone new to the game, words like "optimal + 1" have little meaning.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein

Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#5 - 2011-10-07 21:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kilrayn
Raendel wrote:
Optimal + 1 what? 1 meter? 1 klick?

For someone new to the game, words like "optimal + 1" have little meaning.


Specifically, look at the word immediately following +1, falloff. Also, 0.5km+8.8km means .5k optimal and 8.8k falloff


Edit: Perhaps it was too brief though, I'll elaborate more.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears

Raendel
#6 - 2011-10-07 22:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Raendel
Forgive me, but I don't think adding OR + FO is the "sweet spot". There are a lot of factors in play, such as the speed of ships relative to eachother and the angles they are moving in relation to eachother, as well as the size of the ships and guns.

If your OR is 500m, and your FO is 3000m meters, than adding OR + FO would put you 500m outside of your FO. You would in fact be less accurate, depending on the circumstances.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein

Sister Ignatia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-10-08 00:20:10 UTC
Optimal and falloff are ranges where you have a certain probability to hit a stationary target. Optimal is 100%, + falloff is 50% chance to hit a stationary target. In your case 6.3 km is the range where you hit half the time.

In practice you rarely stand still so see what goes on while shooting at several different distances. Fleet with a corpmate and set orbit and "approach to" distance to 6300 and then experiment. Find the smallest orbit range you can hit at, try your afterburners, find your maximum range.. about twice falloff or 12.3 km. Try another ammo type. When you think you got it, set your orbit at long range and your approach to your shortest range and then while you fly you can switch between the two to see whats hitting better without worrying about your particular range.

Numbers in the fitting programs are just a starting point.
gfldex
#8 - 2011-10-08 00:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
There is a lot of believe when it comes to falloff. Here* is knowledge. At the end of optimal+falloff you do 40% of you paper damage. Given that your effective tracking (size of you turrets and sig radius after modifiers are taken into account) is sufficient.

Basicly you do not want to be in falloff unless it gives you tracking advantage that matters. As long as you use small turrets tracking rarely ever makes a difference.

* http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Falloff

Broken URL removed. Zymurgist

Mate listen, if you can't be helpful, be gone.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Raendel
#9 - 2011-10-08 01:19:29 UTC
Quote:
Numbers in the fitting programs are just a starting point.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2011-10-08 01:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
From 1 m to optimal (there is an old bug at 0 m that might still be around), you never miss because of range, and you have the best chance at making good damage hits. You can still miss because of tracking. Past optimal, not only do you start to miss more and more as the range increases, but the damage of hits drops.

At optimal + falloff you miss because of range about 50% of the time. This is considered the max usable range.

At optimal + 2 * falloff you miss almost all the time because of range. This is the max range, but it isn't very useful.

* Autocannons have a short optimal and deep falloff. They are typically used in falloff, around optimal + 1/2 falloff.
* Artillery have a moderate optimal and a huge falloff. They are typically used in falloff, around optimal + 1/2 falloff.
* Lasers have a moderate optimal and very short falloff. They are typically used at very close to optimal.
* Railguns have a moderate optimal and a moderate falloff. They are typically used at optimal to optimal + 1/2 falloff.
* Blasters have a very short optimal and very short falloff. They are typically used at point-blank range.
malaire
#11 - 2011-10-08 08:37:42 UTC
Long article about Turret Damage.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#12 - 2011-10-09 14:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Myfanwy Heimdal
Thanks ever so much for your replies. This has given me much food for thought and I am going to have to revsit my plan for low-Sec incursions.

edi. What better way to spend a lazy autumnal Sunday afternoon than poring over printouts of my Fit, these notes and, of course, a bottle of red in front of a fire?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Muestereate
Minions LLC
#13 - 2011-10-10 01:31:46 UTC
You may find a good tea more conducive to turret study, a nice airdried green if its fresh.
TuxedoMask
Public Enemies CO
The Initiative.
#14 - 2011-10-10 01:45:25 UTC
fire missiles