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NEUTRAL REP

Author
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#21 - 2012-07-10 23:48:15 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Something like battle reports that list the logistics pilots involved, so your intel gatherers can create a list of associates... (check)

Real logi pilots have been begging for this. Mind you if this happens there will be MORE logis out there, repping their way into fights to get onto killmails. After all, they could even rep both sides.


The "(check)" comment was to point out CCP's already adding logistics to the kill reports... Also, the unsaid point of the comment: getting intel on your opponents should include getting info on who their OOC alts are, and how they are used (eyes, boosting, RR, etc). Finally, assuming CCP fixes crimewatch to give RR agression timers, creating more logi pilots is not a bad thing.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
A longer-term consequence associated with nuetral RR.... Like if you give assistance to a war target, you become a war target for a week or two.


People keep suggesting this, and I keep wondering why no one thinks it through. If I rep your war target and become a war target for a week, then it works one of two ways:

1) You're extending the current aggression mechanic to a full week, giving you shooting rights on me without me being able to preemptively engage you. All because I repped a friend in an incursion while he was at war with you. That is a phenomenally bad plan as it would make it impossible for me to know who is a danger to me in a given system.

2) We would become mutual war targets for the duration of that week, in which case I could rep your enemy and then engage you. Imagine the chaos of THAT mess, where corp membership doesn't matter and I can simply rep my way into whatever war I choose. I could just live in an NPC corp and join into whatever war I pleased.


2.) Addressing number two first:
a.) It CAN NOT be mutual... If it is mutual, you're essentially giving a loophole to create unlimited numbers of free allies, as you pointed out.
b.) It SHOULD NOT be mutual... The Nuetral RR'er are bypassing the concord fees and essentially joining in the war in a clandestine manner.... Those pilots typically know the players within the war they are joining, and they know who the "enemies" are.... I would highly suggesting an interface improvement that helps players identify threats (i.e. on your character sheet, a page that says:
-- you are a legitmate target to Player A until date XX/YY for suicide ganking their hulk (killrights),
-- you are a legitimate target to Corp/Alliance B due to a concord-sanctioned war,
-- you are a legit target for Corp C until date XX/YY for aiding their enemies of war in battle, etc)
People already set players and corps Red, and watch local to identify threats.... This is not something new or u

1.) Your incursion counter-example is completely unfounded. Serious Incursion runners already ban people in wars from joining their incursion fleets. And when a war-decced pilot does sneak into an incursion fleet, most smart logi pilots already withhold reps on that fleet member and let them DIE rather than put their logi ship at risk. In general, this would have no effect on incursion fleets.... I will admit that there are some atypical cases where people do risk repping a war target, and this will give them second thought. However, in general this will not effect many beyond the neutral RR in high-sec wardec scenarios.

-- Final thought... this could be used as a way to get "free" wardecs on new and/or oblivious EvE players... but they'll adapt or die... This will have much less harm to them than can flipping/baiting, so I hardly see an issue...

Please point out any loopholes or problems I'm missing...
The only "problem" I see with this, is it effectively nerfs using nuetral alts in wars. While you could still use them for the initial punch effect, these non-trivially skilled alts then lose most their utility... they can no longer freely travel under concord protection when between battles!! And even worse, they can't even shoot first thereafter, when they effectively become a party in the war. With such a diminished utility, their usage becomes almost not worth it!
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#22 - 2012-07-14 16:56:54 UTC
During last fanfest they mentioned a complete rework of how Crimewatch works.

This should fix this in its entirety.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-07-14 21:40:00 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
During last fanfest they mentioned a complete rework of how Crimewatch works.

This should fix this in its entirety.

Also, gate/station games aren't a "neutral RR" problem, they're an "RR has no aggression timers" problem. The Crimewatch rework should fix this as they are planning to add support for inherited aggression timers, which stops the station games while allowing logistics-based gangs to deaggress the same way a locally tanked gang would.
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