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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Defected Amarrian moves to Pator

Author
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-07-13 17:32:47 UTC
It displeases me greatly to hear of your "upbringing."

It further reiterates that what you have experienced is not something that is prevalent in the State as a whole, however. Your experience is dramatically different from mine and many others that I've known, and the ruthless dedication to bottom-line efficiency and unquestioning loyalty is not something that is practiced routinely throughout most corporations, I'd likely place it under the Practical bloc.

I would also be interested in whatever proof you may have regarding the "large number" of Jove affiliated members of the State, as such affiliations could bring an extreme amount of shame and dishonor to those individuals and their families and corporations. If you do not have proof of your claims, I recommend being more prudent with where you proclaim them, as you may find yourself in the "live biomass" you speak of, though I shudder to think that such a thing is practiced by any corporation in the State.

I would recommend seeking a change of corporate identity if you can bring yourself to pursue such a line of thinking. You will realize that the horrors you speak of are not common to the State and, in point of fact, would be largely viewed as detestable by the greater majority of your compatriots.

~Malcolm Khross

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#102 - 2012-07-13 17:45:14 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
I would also be interested in whatever proof you may have regarding the "large number" of Jove affiliated members of the State, as such affiliations could bring an extreme amount of shame and dishonor to those individuals and their families and corporations. If you do not have proof of your claims, I recommend being more prudent with where you proclaim them, as you may find yourself in the "live biomass" you speak of, though I shudder to think that such a thing is practiced by any corporation in the State.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood, it was never my intention to imply that any considerable portion of the State citizenry have an active affiliation with the Jovian Directorate or the Jove themselves for that matter, and perhaps mentioning that aspect of the tube child program on an open forum at all was imprudent, but to provide "proof" of these claims would involve the sharing of classified State statistics that most certainly would result in my termination. Please take what I've said "with a unit of trit" as the old saying goes, a fellow citizen of the State asked for my perspective and it was given.

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-07-13 17:50:15 UTC
William Nimitz wrote:
I'm afraid you've misunderstood, it was never my intention to imply that any considerable portion of the State citizenry have an active affiliation with the Jovian Directorate or the Jove themselves for that matter, and perhaps mentioning that aspect of the tube child program on an open forum at all was imprudent, but to provide "proof" of these claims would involve the sharing of classified State statistics that most certainly would result in my termination. Please take what I've said "with a unit of trit" as the old saying goes, a fellow citizen of the State asked for my perspective and it was given.


I did misunderstand, you didn't imply an affiliation.

I cannot take what you've said as 'worth a unit of trit' because you felt it worth mentioning. I will, however, not press you further as you have provided a sufficient and logical reason not to do so. Regardless, I appreciate you sharing your perspective though I would again suggest caution when speaking as if your perspective is that of the whole State.

I would request that you stop by the Kaashivon Public Hall in Black Rise and perhaps we could share a bit of our different experiences on a less public venue and perhaps understand one another to a greater degree.

~Malcolm Khross

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-07-13 18:02:44 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
I cannot take what you've said as 'worth a unit of trit' because you felt it worth mentioning. I will, however, not press you further as you have provided a sufficient and logical reason not to do so. Regardless, I appreciate you sharing your perspective though I would again suggest caution when speaking as if your perspective is that of the whole State.

Thank you for your understanding. I did manage to find mention of this holoreel within the State archives, it is a Gallentean film so again take what it shows at face value, but it does protend to show the life of a State tube child engineered for combat duty, and I would encourage those interested in this topic to view it.

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2012-07-14 00:54:20 UTC
William Nimitz, you need a hug. Really badly. Maybe the reason Matar react so differently to you is a matter of upbringing and needs. Do you crave compassion at all?

Also this has gotten quite off topic, but then again most of the comms are flooded with the usual Amarr/Minmatar banter and a Gallente or two proving yet again why they should consider banning freedom of speech in the federation. So I guess it is time for some Caldari to voice their opinions. As long as their opinions serve the state.
Disagreements may abound William, but fundamentally the Amarr and Gallente want to force their views on others while the Caldari and Minmatar wish to be left alone.

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#106 - 2012-07-14 01:32:54 UTC
William Nimitz wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
I cannot take what you've said as 'worth a unit of trit' because you felt it worth mentioning. I will, however, not press you further as you have provided a sufficient and logical reason not to do so. Regardless, I appreciate you sharing your perspective though I would again suggest caution when speaking as if your perspective is that of the whole State.

Thank you for your understanding. I did manage to find mention of this holoreel within the State archives, it is a Gallentean film so again take what it shows at face value, but it does protend to show the life of a State tube child engineered for combat duty, and I would encourage those interested in this topic to view it.


As a tube child, I found that film hilariously inaccurate. It was made for entertainment, not accuracy.

Katrina Oniseki

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-07-14 01:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: William Nimitz
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
Disagreements may abound William, but fundamentally the Amarr and Gallente want to force their views on others while the Caldari and Minmatar wish to be left alone.
I agree, I've long felt that the State and the Republic indeed share similar ideologies that would, to a degree, make them compatible allies. These include such common qualities as loyalty to one's government/tribe, and a desire for the long term wellfare and stability of our people. There is of course also the fact that both our governments face constant pressure from foreign bodies who believe they know how to run our governments better than we do.

With that said their are also some distinct differences between our two nations that I believe are the cause of strained relations. First is the fact that a considerable portion of the Minmatar people are involved in criminal activities that would never be tolerated in the State, but since the people commiting them often claim they do so "to free their people" it seems from an outsider's perspective that the Republic by and large tolerates this sort of criminality.
Secondly the Caldari State for the most part is secular and scientificly minded in nature, where as the matari people tend to cling to archaic expressions of heathenistic and superstitious social norms. As an example I would cite the two previously mentioned articles on methods of interrogation employed by our governments. We see that the Caldari State prefers subtle forms psychological influence refined to an artform using advanced cybernetic implants, in contrast the Minmatar Republic seems to prefer crude wooden implements and the council of hallucinations.

Next I would point out that our technology and battle doctrines greatly differ. Caldari ships tend to be highly specialized and suited towards large fleet engagements where every person has their purpose and performs the task they are train to, much like the Caldari State itself. By contrast Matari ships, in my opinion, tend more towards small roaming bands, much like one would expect from a barbarian horde. Your weapon systems also seem to favor versatility over specialization, demonstrating a certain "jack of all trades master of none" mentality which I perceive to be a quality shared by your culture on a more broader scale. Finally their is the matter of the ships themselves, Caldari ships employ the latest in military technology, relying on advanced shield systems and state of the art computers. Minmatar ships on the other hand seem like something a Caldari child might construct as a school project, with equally primitve computer technology to match.

Could there be an alliance between our two governments? Perhaps in time, as the Minmatar Republic continues to stabilize and find it's own identity this may be possible. Such an alliance though wouldn't be without it's destabilizing effects on empire space. Without the Caldari State to help the Amarr Empire, or the Minmatar Republic to assist the Gallente Federation, each of these factions would be left to fend for themselves, two individual factions who could never hope for peace between each other versus an alliance of soldiers and warriors highly skilled in their respective disciplines. I don't even want to consider what implications this would have for smaller entities such as the Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate.

Finally as far as hugging goes, please keep your affections to yourself, those impulses were removed from my psyche a long time ago. And maybe that in itself is another difference between us that shows just how different we are.

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#108 - 2012-07-14 02:03:20 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
As a tube child, I found that film hilariously inaccurate. It was made for entertainment, not accuracy.
Agreed, although as a Gallentean film I did find some of the undertones and biases to be interesting and very telling of the Federation's perception of State engineered citizens.

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#109 - 2012-07-14 02:39:34 UTC
Why should anyone defect our glorious empire? I, Lord Vaari, earld of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, golden mountain, archbishop of the Church of Providence, self proclaimed prophet, carrier of the Heavehn's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, guardian angel of the Providence, tyrant of the Imperial Pharmacy, glorious diplomat, arch resident of the QBL-pocket and many more glorious titles does not understand, why someone would want to defect our empire? It make no sense.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-07-14 02:48:56 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Why should anyone defect our glorious empire? I, Lord Vaari, earld of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, golden mountain, archbishop of the Church of Providence, self proclaimed prophet, carrier of the Heavehn's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, guardian angel of the Providence, tyrant of the Imperial Pharmacy, glorious diplomat, arch resident of the QBL-pocket and many more glorious titles does not understand, why someone would want to defect our empire? It make no sense.

You don't say...

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-07-14 03:10:05 UTC
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
So I'll continue doing what I'm doing. Teasing Amarr nobles, rescuing slaves, flying against the 24th and hoping the missions I accomplish will aid the Minmatar people and not just the war effort.


To be fair the first I heard from you was your crack about executing POWs summarily. If you're actually not doing that then my beef with you never existed in the first place.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-07-14 03:12:01 UTC
William Nimitz wrote:
Secondly the Caldari State for the most part is secular and scientificly minded in nature, where as the matari people tend to cling to archaic expressions of heathenistic and superstitious social norms.


Uhm.... Wayism?
William Nimitz
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-07-14 03:19:46 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
William Nimitz wrote:
Secondly the Caldari State for the most part is secular and scientificly minded in nature, where as the matari people tend to cling to archaic expressions of heathenistic and superstitious social norms.


Uhm.... Wayism?

Not quite, from what I gather this "Wayism" you speak of is an homogenizing of multiple religions into one, whereas, atleast in my opinion, Matari beliefs tend more towards the shamanic animism commonly found in pre technological cultures. Which begs the question, just how many among the Minmatar population still believe in talking lizard guides and ancestor ghosts?

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Benjamin Eastwood
#114 - 2012-07-14 03:27:52 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:

I'll also say that any job that doesn't require those three things is best done by a machine.


This is the thought process the State has followed. Humans are inefficient, expensive, and hard to control. Not only that, but what good are living, breathing human beings if they can't even buy the products you're producing? It's money gone to waste. Drones can easily perform the same functions as humans, in more adverse environments, and without the need for downtime in most instances.

"Endless ISK, the sinews of war"

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-07-14 03:40:04 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
So I'll continue doing what I'm doing. Teasing Amarr nobles, rescuing slaves, flying against the 24th and hoping the missions I accomplish will aid the Minmatar people and not just the war effort.


To be fair the first I heard from you was your crack about executing POWs summarily. If you're actually not doing that then my beef with you never existed in the first place.


I'm not exactly renowned for my combat skills, let alone quick enough to scoop up capsules or escape pods. So despite a joke of fairly bad taste I guess we don't have any beef at all. Not a single steak of it.

William, practice hugging a girder or something and slowly move up to people. Peace could only be achieved if Minmatar got their slaves back and worked towards social and economic progress. Then just draw lines between all four Empires and simply say "I don't care if your God has suns for eyes and thinks it'd be super awesome if you forced everyone into your religion or if you think everyone has the right to get naked and high, staying in university for 20 years. Stay on your side of the line and shut the f*ck up."

Peace through isolation except for trading. Where's my humanitarian award?

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-07-14 03:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: William Nimitz
Benjamin Eastwood wrote:
Humans are inefficient, expensive, and hard to control. Not only that, but what good are living, breathing human beings if they can't even buy the products you're producing? Drones can easily perform the same functions as humans, in more adverse environments, and without the need for downtime in most instances.
I assume you've fielded drones on your ships? How often to do they fail to respond to a command, or fail to choose the proper target when left to engage at will? Also theirs the whole rogue drone issue to consider.

No I'm afraid I'm inclined to disagree, an engineered human can perform under conditions once thought only possible for a machine, combined with decision making skills equal to or surpassing any womb born human. I would even go so far as to say I find your words insulting towards the billions of hard working Caldari citizens who have devoted their lives to the State, engineered or not.

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-07-14 03:44:48 UTC
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
Peace through isolation except for trading. Where's my humanitarian award?

Straight Oh the Federation would just love that...

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

William Nimitz
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-07-14 03:55:35 UTC
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
Peace could only be achieved if Minmatar got their slaves back and worked towards social and economic progress.
When did the Minmatar lose their slaves? Blink

It is a symptom of madness that thoughts become uncontrollably disjointed. This can be encouraged.

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2012-07-14 03:57:11 UTC
William Nimitz wrote:
Lyskal Oskold wrote:
Peace through isolation except for trading. Where's my humanitarian award?

Straight Oh the Federation would just love that...


I do find it odd that the two really big Empire tragedies were committed by the Amarr when they destroyed our culture and stuffed millions of us on ships, but then by the Gallente who had the most demented reaction to a small scale attack I have ever seen.
Who in their right mind attempts to completely annihilate a homeworld? It's almost as stupid as labor slaves when there are cheaper, safer, easier means of automatic and synthetic labor.

The Caldari and Minmatar both have their respective problems and will never get along too well. But you don't see Caldari chasing us with a contract yelling "SIGN IT FOR THE STATE DAMN IT!" while a Minmatar chases that caldari with a needle screaming "HOW CAN YOU BE A TRIBAL CALDARI WITHOUT A FACIAL TATTOO!?

Why don't we? Because we are we and they are they and they haven't stuck their noses in our business in an extremely negative fashion.

Report on the siege and evacuation of Caldari Prime.

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2012-07-14 04:02:21 UTC
Also if a Gallente, if anyone, ever says I'm wrong in respecting the late Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba, I'll shoot them.

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb