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Delve ell oh ell wtf...

Author
Vellamo Lyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-07-13 22:01:31 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
[quote=Doctor Benway Kado]


Don't be a bitter hate poster.

Your points all make no sense.

Fights started off well with PL+TEST vs Nulli/Vera/RA

Then -A- got called in to save timers. That is an escalation. Conveniently forgetting this makes SoCo look really bad in my eyes.

PL-TEST was usually a fleet of 200-220 people vs equal numbers.

CFC was called in, for several reasons. But mainly because -A- is ****.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#142 - 2012-07-13 22:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alphea Abbra
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Some people seem very upset that the CFC tries to win rather than doing everything blindfolded and with one arm tied behind their back. As if the point of fighting a war, even a fictional war in a video game is to make it fun for your opponent.

My counterpoint would be that they can't both have an enormous advantage and expect people to fight against their advantage. They can't both have their cake and eat it, so to speak.
If they want easy fights and steamrolling space, then yeah, higher numbers = easier victories = efficiency (And so on).
If they want "good fights" and wanted us to undock, then it's pretty basic psychology that most people won't fight against clearly impossible odds. When SoCo got cornered in 319, it very quickly began to look like clearly impossible odds.

This isn't rocket science (It's psychology instead! - ha ha, I made a funny); if they had an advantage that our FC's and strategists thought we could counter, then we'd have undocked a lot more. But -A-'s FC's especially didn't want to fight uneven odds, and so the odds became further impossible for those who wanted, spiralling into none undocking since they all thought they'd be horribly outnumbered.

Vellamo Lyr wrote:
Don't be a bitter hate poster.

Your points all make no sense.

Fights started off well with PL+TEST vs Nulli/Vera/RA

Then -A- got called in to save timers. That is an escalation. Conveniently forgetting this makes SoCo look really bad in my eyes.

PL-TEST was usually a fleet of 200-220 people vs equal numbers.

CFC was called in, for several reasons. But mainly because -A- is ****.

This is factually wrong. Fights started with Nulli/Vera vs. RA vs. PL, a threeway fight.
Then PL brought TEST in, and started that escalation, so we stopped our war to start our own escalation.
Caroline Cosmos
Perkone
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-07-13 22:12:12 UTC
I think a nice war between TEST and Goonswarm would really spice these forums up.
Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#144 - 2012-07-13 22:14:37 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:

My counterpoint would be that they can't both have an enormous advantage and expect people to fight against their advantage. They can't both have their cake and eat it, so to speak.


You guys wouldn't undock regardless of our fleet comp or advantage. That happened in a multitude of fleets I was in.

:darkelf:

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-07-13 22:21:42 UTC
Caroline Cosmos wrote:
I think a nice war between TEST and Goonswarm would really spice these forums up.




That will be epic some day because fight our own friends will be a hell of a real challenge, witch is completely different from what 319 is today ( a total joke)

brb

Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#146 - 2012-07-13 22:24:35 UTC
reset goons!

:darkelf:

Hench Tenet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2012-07-13 22:26:44 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Some people seem very upset that the CFC tries to win rather than doing everything blindfolded and with one arm tied behind their back. As if the point of fighting a war, even a fictional war in a video game is to make it fun for your opponent.

My counterpoint would be that they can't both have an enormous advantage and expect people to fight against their advantage. They can't both have their cake and eat it, so to speak.
If they want easy fights and steamrolling space, then yeah, higher numbers = easier victories = efficiency (And so on).
If they want "good fights" and wanted us to undock, then it's pretty basic psychology that most people won't fight against clearly impossible odds. When SoCo got cornered in 319, it very quickly began to look like clearly impossible odds.

This isn't rocket science (It's psychology instead! - ha ha, I made a funny); if they had an advantage that our FC's and strategists thought we could counter, then we'd have undocked a lot more. But -A-'s FC's especially didn't want to fight uneven odds, and so the odds became further impossible for those who wanted, spiralling into none undocking since they all thought they'd be horribly outnumbered.



You're right here. Sincerely.

When TEST has a deployment, like the start of the delve one, the attitude is thus: "Hey guys, let's go dumpster some nerds, **** up local a lot, train some newbros, probably win in the process." We aren't despondent, but neither do we chestbeat. That goes for straight up sov wars too.

We can, in that sense, lose a war and have few problems with it: see geminate. Now -A- for example, propaganda or not, consistently says how much better they are, how much they will beat us, how hard they are going to kick our asses. Also, they try their hardest to call everyone else pets, when they unironically and objectively do have pets.

From that point on, we basically had no mercy. Notice the lack of hellcamps and ship spamming pre- -A- deployment? Of course it was a different war then; it was also a laugh. But -A- can't psychologically afford to lose, even when beaten they still have to call it a victory. So we (northerners) hellcamped, blopsed, blobbed, blapped, all those things to keep you docked.

If -A- weren't such whiny nerdlords about it, we would have probably been a lot more inclined to set up "good fights", with less people being motivated for killing -A- in the first place. Another reason you lost so badly is that the morale of TEST,GSF, and to an extent PL doesn't really get affected a lot by in-game happenings. We don't rely on killboards and sov to have fun and drama.

You should have seen DHD's smug when he had 4 fights in one day in 319, essentially drakespamming and dropping dreads on anyone that undocked. It takes a special kind of ******, i.e -A-, to bring that kind of reaction out of a fun-loving alliance (not that he didn't have fun doing it).

To summarise, never let -A- lead anything ever again. They are selfish and uninspired (really how did you even get that few people online for CTAs). Just bc=ecause they're an old alliance who fly expensive ships doesn't make them the people to lead "the opposition".
Hench Tenet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-07-13 22:28:53 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:

This is factually wrong. Fights started with Nulli/Vera vs. RA vs. PL, a threeway fight.
Then PL brought TEST in, and started that escalation, so we stopped our war to start our own escalation.


This is factually wrong. Nulli and RA stopped fighting soon after PL killed RA titans.
Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#149 - 2012-07-13 22:29:40 UTC
Oh, the doomsdays on the station gaming carriers. So good.

:darkelf:

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#150 - 2012-07-13 22:31:59 UTC
Katie Corb wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:

My counterpoint would be that they can't both have an enormous advantage and expect people to fight against their advantage. They can't both have their cake and eat it, so to speak.


You guys wouldn't undock regardless of our fleet comp or advantage. That happened in a multitude of fleets I was in.


So you don't bring overwhelming odds from nearby systems the minute one of your ships dips into armor?

Don't answer.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Caroline Cosmos
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-07-13 22:41:57 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Caroline Cosmos wrote:
I think a nice war between TEST and Goonswarm would really spice these forums up.




That will be epic some day because fight our own friends will be a hell of a real challenge, witch is completely different from what 319 is today ( a total joke)



Oh come now. Nobody here are really friends now are we? Space associates, maybe... Friends? Not really.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#152 - 2012-07-13 22:42:22 UTC
Katie Corb wrote:
Oh, the doomsdays on the station gaming carriers. So good.


Escalation call for escalation, that simple. We might nor agree on some terms but when things happen you get a single voice man talking over your chest, like it or not, you can denie it, it's the most honourable action from eve players able put aside whatever differences to achieve a common goal.

That's null sec, love it or hate it, goons will leave their footprint forever and there's noting that can ever match this large scale common interest (glue) that makes every one at some point agree with each other.

You can hate things you're not aware, you can hate things you disagree but at the end of the line, you'll understand there's no other way to make "game player content " be as relevant as it is and probably will ever be.

Just a thought from a non senseless NPC alt.

brb

Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#153 - 2012-07-13 22:43:21 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Katie Corb wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:

My counterpoint would be that they can't both have an enormous advantage and expect people to fight against their advantage. They can't both have their cake and eat it, so to speak.


You guys wouldn't undock regardless of our fleet comp or advantage. That happened in a multitude of fleets I was in.


So you don't bring overwhelming odds from nearby systems the minute one of your ships dips into armor?

Don't answer.

I wouldn't know because none of your fleets have stayed undocked long enough to dip me below 75% shields

:darkelf:

Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#154 - 2012-07-13 22:48:50 UTC
I hate to break it to you guys, but "You refused to undock to fight us while we took your sov" is kind of an unbeatable trump card. Spin it all you want, but in the end that's going to be how we see it. Sorry What?
Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#155 - 2012-07-13 22:52:29 UTC
That being said, I -really- like the sound of the sov gained thing.

:darkelf:

Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2012-07-13 22:54:19 UTC
We are going to look so foolish when we run out of fuel and moral.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#157 - 2012-07-13 23:02:36 UTC
Hench Tenet wrote:
Long post


So basically what you are saying is that if -A- didn't get involved in this then TEST would have never ever called for GSF help and would have accepted whatever defeat that might come? As if TEST had absolutely no interest in taking Delve and the surrounding regions by whatever means necessary?

I will concede that -A- involvement was a real sweetener when convincing the GSF to get involved, but sooner or later they would get involved anyway.


I won't get into a discussion about the merit of -A- involvement in this because my alliance's diplomat already hates me as it is. But don't expect people to believe that you only wanted goodfights and were only going to give as good as you got. You wanted to take everything the minute you saw the opportunity.





Come to think of, everyone knows that. I have no idea why i am stating the obvious here. I must be more bored than i initiatlly thought =)

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#158 - 2012-07-13 23:04:25 UTC
Delve is where Alliances go to die. We just want it so we can die in Amarr ships.

:darkelf:

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#159 - 2012-07-13 23:26:24 UTC
Hench Tenet wrote:
Now -A- for example, propaganda or not, consistently says how much better they are, how much they will beat us, how hard they are going to kick our asses. Also, they try their hardest to call everyone else pets, when they unironically and objectively do have pets.

From that point on, we basically had no mercy. ... You should have seen DHD's smug when he had 4 fights in one day in 319, essentially drakespamming and dropping dreads on anyone that undocked. It takes a special kind of ****** ... to bring that kind of reaction out of a fun-loving alliance (not that he didn't have fun doing it).


So, back to what I said at the outset: someone said meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaan things about TEST, and their tender sensitive hearts just couldn't take that, and they cried and flailed around like angry toddlers, and then took a region in a manner so cowardly that the chief opposition to a long-time deployment of this strategy is going to be their own member's latent bloodlust.

Well, gotta have someone like that in a game, but can you just be upfront about it? Be as pathetic as you are without laying all this bullshit on everyone about it. It would at least be nice if your own members understood what was going on, and wouldn't dumbly pout about never having to lose their shields in this war :-(

'Fun-loving alliance', *spit*.
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-07-13 23:29:37 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
So, back to what I said at the outset: someone said meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaan things about TEST, and their tender sensitive hearts just couldn't take that, and they cried and flailed around like angry toddlers, and then took a region in a manner so cowardly that the chief opposition to a long-time deployment of this strategy is going to be their own member's latent bloodlust.

Well, gotta have someone like that in a game, but can you just be upfront about it? Be as pathetic as you are without laying all this bullshit on everyone about it. It would at least be nice if your own members understood what was going on, and wouldn't dumbly pout about never having to lose their shields in this war :-(

'Fun-loving alliance', *spit*.

You refused to undock to fight us while we took your sov