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Marauders :: Still Viable ???
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Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-13 17:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Very much agreed: in the face of Pirate Battleships like the Nightmare and Machariel, the ridiculous training time for Marauders make them a lot less attractive.

There are so many stupid skills like Energy Grid Upgrades that you must max just to pilot one! Also; the Weapon Upgrades line of skills. It is a nice skill line to train, to be sure, but it shouldn't be the requisite to fly the damn things!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#22 - 2012-07-13 20:03:40 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Crellion is right, aside from the golem thing (golem is much, MUCH better than the rattler for missions).

I've got to question whether you've played with rattler fittings since the advent of the drone damage augmentors and ancillary shield boosters. It can get downright scary now.

Drone damage mods take the drone rattler to like 700 DPS, which is still awful. If you put torps on it then you've got the same problems as a golem, but no TP bonus and less DPS.



I get 800 dps with drones and t1 cruise missiles (crappy missile skills), so your numbers are way off. Furthermore, that dps can be projected 50km with garde's w/ excellent tracking and no loss of dps due to falloff. Can a Machariel boast that?

The 700 was without missiles. If you had perfect skills, and went full on gank fit, you'd get about 1300 out of a rattler and 1400 from a golem, and the golem will outperform it in the end because of that target painter bonus.

Mind you outperforming the rattler in missions isn't hard, a regular t1 domi can do it with some mild faction bling,
warzonetemp
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-07-13 20:18:19 UTC
If you go the route for specialization, why don't we all fly Nightmares and live in Amarr space or go to Sansha null sec for hunting.

Tachyons are extremely scary weapons still, especially if 4 of them equals 8.

Has anyone ever done a check between Paladin versus Nightmare stats? Think the scan resolution helps the nightmare beat the Paly.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#24 - 2012-07-13 20:21:23 UTC
salvage is pretty meh these days, and most of the time when I do loot it is just a metal scrap. main exception: Enemies abound, some nice juicy loot there maruader with 3x tractor beams ftw.

paladin is pretty much a lazy nightmare. easy to perma run stuff on the paladin. plus the 48km tractor beam is very useful on a few missions.
Kronos, a lower dps, better tank and cap recharge vindy. I haven't flown either one enough to form a solid opinion yet. as far as the domi goes I've never really been into the domi.
varg has lower dps and better tank than a mach. it makes AE pretty brain dead, tbh I haven't really flown it much outside of that, but most people seem to like it the most out of the marauders.
golem, doesn't really have a direct pirate boat, and if anything the tengu and CNR compliment it more than replace. Missiles have gotten kinda meh in pve though. I'd rather fly the mach for the close range brawl missions.

only reason to fly a rattlesnake is mostly afk 700 dps boat.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-07-13 21:35:50 UTC
Batelle wrote:
I get 800 dps with drones and t1 cruise missiles (crappy missile skills), so your numbers are way off. Furthermore, that dps can be projected 50km with garde's w/ excellent tracking and no loss of dps due to falloff. Can a Machariel boast that?

800 is still low. I can push 1000 with cruises, three omnidirectionals, and more than enough tank, and I haven't played with it more than a few minutes. You can stuff those lows with nothing but damage mods, it's honestly hard to make it not have enough tank for missions anymore.

Cambarus wrote:
If you want a ship that makes good use of the drone damage mods, fly a navy domi (I think I got my mission fit to 1400 DPS with rails but I'd have to double check that)


I would like to see your navy domi fit, or the gist of it at least. Not trying to call you out or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I do like turrets better than missiles, but it seems a lot harder to go full gank with the navy domi without going into the mission with your pants around your ankles defensively, even taking the dps into account.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#26 - 2012-07-13 22:42:51 UTC
I'm still toying with the exact fit, but THIS is what I'm currently using, and in most missions I'm not even turning on the tank <3
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-07-13 22:57:43 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
I'm still toying with the exact fit, but THIS is what I'm currently using, and in most missions I'm not even turning on the tank <3

Very nice fit, thank you for sharing!
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-07-14 00:35:14 UTC
I fly Minmatar and I'm on the brink of being able to train for Marauders(Vargur). Actually I will be able to in about 14 hours.

However, I'm also considering going through the extra month of training to save even more money for a Mach.

So for a mission runner I could either do looting and salvaging with a Vargur or fly a Mach and have to choose between a tractor beam or a salvager for the extra hi-slot.

Decisions decisions....
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#29 - 2012-07-15 00:28:15 UTC
This is a very common question and comes up once a week regularly. There are the pirate faction BS fanboys who don't get tired of telling you that Noctis+ Faction BS is better ISK/h than Marauder, which is wrong.

If you are able to put some APM out while playing and already have the prerequisites for Marauders, it is a better choice than faction BS. As somebody already stated, the Marauder pilot will overtake in ISK/h the moment the other pilot warps back, switches to Noctis, warps back in and starts salvaging. The Marauder pilot will be halfway through the next mission when the Noctis guy finishes salvaging.

What most people seem incapable to understand is the fact that the Marauder pilot is able to kill stuff as fast as the faction BS pilot while salvaging all the important wrecks at the same time. Prerequisite for that is putting some effort into your gameplay and having Multitasking skilled up, this enables you to lock up to 10 targets which renders low scan res a non- issue and leaving you enough room to lock several wrecks and NPC's at once.

That said one needs to specify which Marauder he is aiming towards, because Vargur is the best of the bunch. I personally find Golem and Kronos not so hot, so Nightmare and Machariel against their preferred NPC's might even be a better choice than Kronos or Golem. If you decide for a Vargur, you should always be ahead in ISK/h given a good fit and gameplay.
Kalli Brixzat
#30 - 2012-07-16 03:33:20 UTC
Depends on the mission completely.

I will use my Golem for missions where:

1. My warp-in is <40km from rats
2. The loot/salvage is consistently good (Angels Extravaganza, Gone Berserk, and anything with Mercenaries)
3. Lots of BS/BC-sized targets
4. (Most importantly) Full clearing/looting/salvaging is better than blitzing.

If all or most of the above is met, then I use my Golem (same would apply for pretty much all other Marauders too). If the above is not the case...then just use your T3 or gankiest mission BS and blitz.
M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#31 - 2012-07-17 00:45:57 UTC
Be careful when shooting and salvaging so you don't shoot the wreck you are tractoring in. Especially when it was the 4m isk faction spawn.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-07-17 08:09:15 UTC
M'nu wrote:
Be careful when shooting and salvaging so you don't shoot the wreck you are tractoring in. Especially when it was the 4m isk faction spawn.


Ouch.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#33 - 2012-07-17 11:32:47 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
I'm still toying with the exact fit, but THIS is what I'm currently using, and in most missions I'm not even turning on the tank <3


Great fit (though a bit light for heavy EM dps even if hardeners are swapped). At the right hands I am sure its making a lot of isk Lol
Jakob79
Feuersturm am Rhein
#34 - 2012-07-17 13:48:30 UTC
Speaking of the roles of a maraunders Vs. Rats aka NPC`s, I love to Rat in my Vargur in Nullsec It rips those Guys quite fast apart actually. don't think than a Macha could doo it faster actually and the resists are better on the Vargur since its T2, and price is about the same
Here the fit I`m using against Angels

High Slot
4 x 800mm Repeating Artillery II ( Hail L or Fusion L)
2 x Small Tractor Beam II

Med Slot
1 x Gist X-Type Large Shiled Booster
1 x Adaptive Invul Field II
1 x Dread Guristas Explosive Deflection Field
1 x Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
1 x Shield Boost Amplifier II
1 x Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invu Field

Low Slot
3 x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
2 x Tacking enahncer II

Rigs
2 x Large CCC I

Drones
5 x Valkyrie II
5 x Warrior II

920 DPS with Fusion / and 1145 DPS with Hail
resists are 68 em / 70 Therm / 86 Kin / 88 Exp

Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-07-17 14:59:23 UTC
Just because vargus is the best of the marauders ... doesent mean they as a shipclass are worth the SP investment.

As a golem and pally pilot ... I look with envy at machariels.
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#36 - 2012-07-18 00:09:47 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Drone damage mods take the drone rattler to like 700 DPS, which is still awful. If you put torps on it then you've got the same problems as a golem, but no TP bonus and less DPS.

If you want a ship that makes good use of the drone damage mods, fly a navy domi (I think I got my mission fit to 1400 DPS with rails but I'd have to double check that)

You're only getting 700 out of it? I'd recommend taking another look at your fitting.

Then again it's one of those ships where, if you don't like it, you're not likely to ever like it. At least that's my experience with rattlesnake fans and those unimpressed by it.


I'd say that the Rattler and Navy Domi are about equals now. Choosing between them is a matter of whether you like missiles or guns ( which are only assisting the drones if you fit it properly). But 700 dps that must be off I've got some room to improve on my navy Domi and I get 800dps with 600+dps tank.
Dr Ted Kaper
Arondight
#37 - 2012-07-18 00:17:56 UTC
I just don't salvage unless it's a mission without bounties. Then I spend the extra time with a salvager.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-07-18 03:10:55 UTC
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
I just don't salvage unless it's a mission without bounties. Then I spend the extra time with a salvager.


Seems rather arbitrary.

I salvage missions vs. Angels, Sansha and Blood Raiders. They seem to give the highest proportion of armor plates and alloyed bars, which are the most valuable T1 salvage. Drones were amazing at giving alloyed bars, but I don't do drone missions anymore.

I loot vs. Angels, EoM and Marcs. They seem to drop the best/most valuable loot.

Otherwise, farm bounties or just blitz.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-07-18 11:02:30 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Just because vargus is the best of the marauders ... doesent mean they as a shipclass are worth the SP investment.

As a golem and pally pilot ... I look with envy at machariels.


Some would say Golem is one of the best High-sec PvE ships around.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-07-19 20:07:10 UTC
I use a domi for doing level 4s. It has 2 drone damage modules and a twin-armor tank w/ stable cap and can tank almost all level 4s. Its heavies do 500+ DPS.

Anyway, it has a tractor beam, 4 salvagers, and a drone control range unit. The drones function fine... usually... so I really don't need guns due to my drone skills. I loot and salvage while I perma-tank and give out DPS high enough to shred any level 4 with ease.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
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