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why aren't we building stargates in w-space?
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Sitreba Oonchevkii
#1 - 2012-07-10 20:06:17 UTC
when the races of new eden emerged from the dark ages, thousands of years after the close of the eve gate, they rediscovered jump technology and began building stargates and expanding throughout the new eden cluster, until eventually they hit the limits of the cluster. How they went about this process is irrelevant, because that was just like w-space is now; unknown and uncharted, yet we still built stargates. why can't we do the same in w-space? i'm sure those stars are in clusters or galaxies of their own, and they couldn't be that far from new eden since there are sleepers and talocans living there, and its not like they spread throughout the entire universe, so the wormhole closing would not be as devastating as the closing of the eve gate.

this is not suggesting gameplay involving building stargates in w-space, this is purely from a fictional standpoint.

and if im missing some really important detail about the sleepers, how wormholes work, etc, don't flame just tell me thanks

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.
Tykari
The Observatory
#2 - 2012-07-10 21:43:49 UTC
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
when the races of new eden emerged from the dark ages, thousands of years after the close of the eve gate, they rediscovered jump technology and began building stargates and expanding throughout the new eden cluster, until eventually they hit the limits of the cluster. How they went about this process is irrelevant, because that was just like w-space is now; unknown and uncharted, yet we still built stargates. why can't we do the same in w-space? i'm sure those stars are in clusters or galaxies of their own, and they couldn't be that far from new eden since there are sleepers and talocans living there, and its not like they spread throughout the entire universe, so the wormhole closing would not be as devastating as the closing of the eve gate.

this is not suggesting gameplay involving building stargates in w-space, this is purely from a fictional standpoint.

and if im missing some really important detail about the sleepers, how wormholes work, etc, don't flame just tell me thanks


Well I can see a few problems. Bringing all the materials needed for a stargate is likely to much for the limited mass allowances of wormholes to handle meaning they need to wait long enough for a few cycles to happen to bring it all in. I imagine the Sleepers would be toasting the construction sites once construction did start and probably once they finish the gates themselves.

Also not knowing exactly how stargates work there might be other problems. If they work like the scientific articles suggest they might need to at least know where they need to be aiming to establish the connection. Though those articles really aren't accurate with what we see in-game and really should be reworked. It's possible that while stargates can bridge huge distances there might be some limit to them as well.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-10 23:49:09 UTC
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?
Sitreba Oonchevkii
#4 - 2012-07-11 00:03:35 UTC
Charles Baker wrote:
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?


well they must be close and static, yes, since sleepers and talocans are living there. irl wormholes bridge to anywhere in the universe, so maybe these are static. they couldn't bridge somewhere else in the infinite universe every time they open and close or odds are we wouldn't be finding humans on the other side

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#5 - 2012-07-11 02:33:18 UTC
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?


well they must be close and static, yes, since sleepers and talocans are living there. irl wormholes bridge to anywhere in the universe, so maybe these are static. they couldn't bridge somewhere else in the infinite universe every time they open and close or odds are we wouldn't be finding humans on the other side



Why must they be close? Because sleepers are there? Remember the wormholes themselves make the distance apparently smaller, but not necessarily smaller.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Sitreba Oonchevkii
#6 - 2012-07-11 11:04:54 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?


well they must be close and static, yes, since sleepers and talocans are living there. irl wormholes bridge to anywhere in the universe, so maybe these are static. they couldn't bridge somewhere else in the infinite universe every time they open and close or odds are we wouldn't be finding humans on the other side



Why must they be close? Because sleepers are there? Remember the wormholes themselves make the distance apparently smaller, but not necessarily smaller.


theoretically, wormholes transport you somewhere else in the entire universe whenever they open or close. now what are the odds that humans settled every corner of the universe? we find them whenever we enter a wormhole. they must be some kind of proto-wormhole, transporting us somewhere just outside the known cluster, or perhaps some strange portal with a set destination opened by the jove or some other advanced race. theres my 2 isk

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#7 - 2012-07-11 11:17:29 UTC
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?


well they must be close and static, yes, since sleepers and talocans are living there. irl wormholes bridge to anywhere in the universe, so maybe these are static. they couldn't bridge somewhere else in the infinite universe every time they open and close or odds are we wouldn't be finding humans on the other side



Why must they be close? Because sleepers are there? Remember the wormholes themselves make the distance apparently smaller, but not necessarily smaller.


theoretically, wormholes transport you somewhere else in the entire universe whenever they open or close. now what are the odds that humans settled every corner of the universe? we find them whenever we enter a wormhole. they must be some kind of proto-wormhole, transporting us somewhere just outside the known cluster, or perhaps some strange portal with a set destination opened by the jove or some other advanced race. theres my 2 isk



There is nothing to say the sleepers didn't go through the wormhole the same as we did? Blink

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#8 - 2012-07-11 19:47:49 UTC
I think his point is that if wormholes randomly connected two locations in the universe then the chances would be infinitesimally small that we would keep happening upon Sleeper sites. The wormholes must, for some unknown reason, be bridging from New Eden to another specific area of space. Maybe they are some sort of "after-effect" of original artificial wormholes.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-07-12 05:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Charles Baker wrote:
There is also the problem of figuring out exactly where in our universe W-space is, i mean is it even static?


Actually some explorers have done a pretty decent work in doing exactly that. They found out. It is somewhere in the forums....but you can also look here
Spoiler Alert (do not read if you do not want to know)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#10 - 2012-07-12 13:31:42 UTC
IIRC CCP removed the ability to use control towers in this manner after the Arek’Jaalan Project started doing this. That might be a good reason to suspect that these results are not inline with the fiction. The way wormhole space positioned may be the result of programming choices and not consistent with whatever backstory CCP has prepared.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-07-12 13:53:10 UTC
David Forge wrote:
IIRC CCP removed the ability to use control towers in this manner after the Arek’Jaalan Project started doing this. That might be a good reason to suspect that these results are not inline with the fiction. The way wormhole space positioned may be the result of programming choices and not consistent with whatever backstory CCP has prepared.


agreed

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
#12 - 2012-07-12 14:49:43 UTC
Another reason might be, that the physics act a bit strange inside the wormhole systems, which might interfere with the functioning of the gates.

To build a stargate connection two gates need to be build in their place and then connected to each other. At the very least the exact position in real space in relation to each other would have to be known and that is almost impossible in W-space. Besides the sleepers might react extremely hostile to such a structure and who wants to defend the gate 24/h on each day.
Sitreba Oonchevkii
#13 - 2012-07-12 17:21:41 UTC
David Forge wrote:
I think his point is that if wormholes randomly connected two locations in the universe then the chances would be infinitesimally small that we would keep happening upon Sleeper sites. The wormholes must, for some unknown reason, be bridging from New Eden to another specific area of space. Maybe they are some sort of "after-effect" of original artificial wormholes.


Thank You! this is exactly my point!

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2012-07-13 00:20:28 UTC
David Forge wrote:
IIRC CCP removed the ability to use control towers in this manner after the Arek’Jaalan Project started doing this. That might be a good reason to suspect that these results are not inline with the fiction. The way wormhole space positioned may be the result of programming choices and not consistent with whatever backstory CCP has prepared.


On the backstage forums, there is a thread here dicussing why the above is true, based on a recent discussion with CCP Torfi.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#15 - 2012-07-13 01:23:31 UTC
David Forge wrote:
I think his point is that if wormholes randomly connected two locations in the universe then the chances would be infinitesimally small that we would keep happening upon Sleeper sites. The wormholes must, for some unknown reason, be bridging from New Eden to another specific area of space. Maybe they are some sort of "after-effect" of original artificial wormholes.


I'm pretty sure this is explained in chronicles at the time of Apocrypha's release and Templar One.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#16 - 2012-07-13 02:42:59 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
David Forge wrote:
I think his point is that if wormholes randomly connected two locations in the universe then the chances would be infinitesimally small that we would keep happening upon Sleeper sites. The wormholes must, for some unknown reason, be bridging from New Eden to another specific area of space. Maybe they are some sort of "after-effect" of original artificial wormholes.


I'm pretty sure this is explained in chronicles at the time of Apocrypha's release and Templar One.


I read Templar One and I keep abreast (giggidy) of the other official fiction sources and I do not recall anything substantive being revealed about the issue. I have, however, missed more important things. Any elaboration would be most appreciated.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#17 - 2012-07-13 13:49:17 UTC
David Forge wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
David Forge wrote:
I think his point is that if wormholes randomly connected two locations in the universe then the chances would be infinitesimally small that we would keep happening upon Sleeper sites. The wormholes must, for some unknown reason, be bridging from New Eden to another specific area of space. Maybe they are some sort of "after-effect" of original artificial wormholes.


I'm pretty sure this is explained in chronicles at the time of Apocrypha's release and Templar One.


I read Templar One and I keep abreast (giggidy) of the other official fiction sources and I do not recall anything substantive being revealed about the issue. I have, however, missed more important things. Any elaboration would be most appreciated.


I wasn't being too specific. I know the intent to create the wormholes themselves exists (when they detonated that material in the chronicle). And given the revelations in TO, I can't help but shake the feeling that this isn't all random and is very controlled.

I know that's very ambiguous and doesn't really say "why" it's explained... I guess it's just the feeling I'm getting.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Jovan Geldon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-07-13 21:15:47 UTC
Wormholes go between two places - New Eden, and wherever w-space is. This is because the Isogen-5 caches that caused the chain reaction that opened the wormholes in the first place were in those two places (see "The Seyllin Incident", and the 5 chronicles that go with it explaining the role of the rogue drones in the whole affair).