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Is carebearing finally dying?
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Ginger Barbarella
#41 - 2012-07-13 14:36:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Wow. You should release your research to CCP, because not even they are able to determine what you just said with any certainty.


Yes, they could, if they chose to (read: if it was in their benefit as a corporation to do so).

1. CCP can easily determine which accounts pay how
2. CCP can easily identify when toons on that count log in (active vs inactive)
3. CCP can easily determine, as a mean, where those toons spent their time while in-game

It isn't in CCP's best interests to pick nits over this kind of specific data (300k subscription playerbase sounds a lot better on paper than 38k ACTIVE accounts, 128k OCCASSIONALLY ACTIVE accounts, and 134K INACTIVE accounts, for example).

Plus, not making this kind of info available gives forums trolls all kinds of utter non-sense to post without having to back up anything they say with fact. And don't bother commenting on the QER; it hasn't been published in a while, and never included the specific examples I noted above. So neither side of the argument in this thread has ANY data whatsoever to back up their own side of the argument.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-07-13 14:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
Cpt Roghie wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.


Nice debate there bro. Imagine that in court.

"You need to be put in jail for life due to the fact I think you murdered this person and don't even start on that alibi crap because it's been done to death."



Okay mate, first of all;

1. This is EvE. Not your local court house. EVE =/= IRL.
2. I agree on your sarcasm wiith the "risky high sec" deal, High Sec isn't that risky. Although I'd rather sit in a hulk in 0.0 than in any High sec system.
3. High sec does need to be lower reward due to the lower risk.


I'll concede your first point. IRL you make more money in places of high population and stability like New York City or in game say jita. Your 2nd point and your 3rd point are contradictory, SOV null-sec is safer than high sec for those that are blue so I'm not seeing any validity to your 3rd point. If risk vs reward are your measures for income level then the highest income should be in NPC Nullsec, then Wormhole then Lo-sec.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#43 - 2012-07-13 14:45:36 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
It would be wonderul if they added new PVE content, but the carebearing part of the game is hardly dying. Though the forum fighters sure are trying their best to kill it.


Actually, incursions, new missions, filling in the ded level holes for the pirate factions have all been done in what... The last 1.5 years? PvE content has been often included. There are new sites, missions, and activities. The op just needs to find them.

That said, it seems the op is more upset about the loss of income. If this is truly the case, the op needs to expand on his income sources. If mission has lost its fun, try exploration or incursions. If mining is dull, try pi or manufacturing.

Or, move away from the goal of trying to maximize isk gain, towards a more personal goal. I know my indy alts could pick better pi items to make and mods to manufacture, but isk accumulation is not my only goal. Instead, I want to be able to supply my niche market with everything nerfed to outfit stealth bombers, including the bombers. Am I there... Just a few more bpos and I will be.

Or if the op already does that, maximize isk income. I buy my quantum processors (or whatever it's called). Come next week, my bpo will be done and i'll be ready to buy the raw materials and make them, shaving a small amount off my costs. Is this needed to profit, no. Does it maximize my profit a hair more and help with my goal, yes.

So really, if the sandbox has lost its luster, find a new way to build your castle and a new place!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-07-13 16:17:54 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Yes, they could, if they chose to (read: if it was in their benefit as a corporation to do so).

1. CCP can easily determine which accounts pay how
2. CCP can easily identify when toons on that count log in (active vs inactive)
3. CCP can easily determine, as a mean, where those toons spent their time while in-game
…but they can't determine the thing that actually matters: what character counts as a main, for whom, and what part of space they consider “home”. In addition, many accounts will not be easily tied to a person since they are paid for in PLEX, and they have no way of really determining how many people are behind a given IP and/or payment source.

Any kind of algorithmic attempt at answering that question by scouring their own data will be inherently flawed since it cannot actually determine the one thing that matters — only a bunch of rather irrelevant stuff. They could ask, but that would render the rest of the exercise rather pointless (and would just draw down the standard criticism of representativeness of the sample).

Quote:
So neither side of the argument in this thread has ANY data whatsoever to back up their own side of the argument.
One piece of data we have is that 75% of the players enjoy PvP (source), which kind of blows the whole “most people are carbears / CCP must cater to the carebear majority” argument out of the water.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#45 - 2012-07-13 16:38:30 UTC
420 mine rocks erryday

.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-13 16:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
Tippia wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Yes, they could, if they chose to (read: if it was in their benefit as a corporation to do so).

1. CCP can easily determine which accounts pay how
2. CCP can easily identify when toons on that count log in (active vs inactive)
3. CCP can easily determine, as a mean, where those toons spent their time while in-game
…but they can't determine the thing that actually matters: what character counts as a main, for whom, and what part of space they consider “home”. In addition, many accounts will not be easily tied to a person since they are paid for in PLEX, and they have no way of really determining how many people are behind a given IP and/or payment source.

Any kind of algorithmic attempt at answering that question by scouring their own data will be inherently flawed since it cannot actually determine the one thing that matters — only a bunch of rather irrelevant stuff. They could ask, but that would render the rest of the exercise rather pointless (and would just draw down the standard criticism of representativeness of the sample).

Quote:
So neither side of the argument in this thread has ANY data whatsoever to back up their own side of the argument.
One piece of data we have is that 75% of the players enjoy PvP (source), which kind of blows the whole “most people are carbears / CCP must cater to the carebear majority” argument out of the water.


According to the source you posted 70% also like mission running and more people 31% run missions than any other activity. Only 19% do Pvp. Seems like they do get more money from mission runners than any other activity group according to your source.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-07-13 17:05:36 UTC
Some of us carebears are keeping pvp alive in hi-sec, doing trade scams and exploration loot stealing ;)

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Rashmika Clavain
Revelation Space
#48 - 2012-07-13 17:09:31 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.

If you are unhappy with how hisec is, try something else.


How about more reward in Low-Sec and Null-Sec? Smile

(...and I don't mean moving Tech Moons to one area of space >_> )
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-07-13 17:10:02 UTC
No why?

Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-07-13 17:13:11 UTC
I just want to read one good post in this thread. Only one. Is it really so much to ask?

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Spurty
#51 - 2012-07-13 17:14:42 UTC
Missions have a negative affect on the Sandbox sadly. All the do is inject ISK into the system and little else.

If they affected the security status of the constellations they were run in (lots of Pirates congregating in one place usually means lower security) then they would make a whole heap of sense in a dynamic sort of way.

Imagine Motsu becoming a 0.4 due to heavy mission running. People would have to up and move elsewhere ... wow we'd see people moving freighters out of low sec and stuff all the time etc etc

Alas, nothing you can do can budge those pesky locked system security ratings so the best you can do is influence 'control' over who comes / goes in those regions.

Quite the illusion :-/

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-07-13 17:15:28 UTC
Zyress wrote:
According to the source you posted 70% also like mission running and more people 31% run missions than any other activity. Only 19% do Pvp. Seems like they do get more money from mission runners than any other activity group according to your source.
…which is a separate question. Yes, a lot of people run missions. That's because everyone needs a source of income. Does this mean that more people are “mission runners”? No. Does it mean that a lot of people are carbears? Definitely not.

And no. More than 19% do PvP — 19% do it as their primary activity (which is pretty darn high seeing as how it's inherently a money-losing activity). And considering the other categories, you have to wonder if these are just the empire PvPers talking, since the 0.0 guys have their own bar… Blink
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2012-07-13 17:17:06 UTC
Do faction warfare. It has by far the best frigate pvp going and frigate pvp is by far the most fun.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-07-13 17:19:52 UTC
Rashmika Clavain wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.

If you are unhappy with how hisec is, try something else.


How about more reward in Low-Sec and Null-Sec? Smile

(...and I don't mean moving Tech Moons to one area of space >_> )



Yes, there should be more reward in those areas, particularly in lowsec where currently teh reward is no better than hisec but it is in fact the single most dangerous environment in Eve. And Im talking personal reward, not moons etc. If people could make a reasonable (somewhere between hisec (lowest) and nullsec (highest) it would make lowsec viable again for well organised corps.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-07-13 17:21:42 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.


Nice debate there bro. Imagine that in court.

"You need to be put in jail for life due to the fact I think you murdered this person and don't even start on that alibi crap because it's been done to death."



Okay mate, first of all;

1. This is EvE. Not your local court house. EVE =/= IRL.
2. I agree on your sarcasm wiith the "risky high sec" deal, High Sec isn't that risky. Although I'd rather sit in a hulk in 0.0 than in any High sec system.
3. High sec does need to be lower reward due to the lower risk.


I'll concede your first point. IRL you make more money in places of high population and stability like New York City or in game say jita. Your 2nd point and your 3rd point are contradictory, SOV null-sec is safer than high sec for those that are blue so I'm not seeing any validity to your 3rd point. If risk vs reward are your measures for income level then the highest income should be in NPC Nullsec, then Wormhole then Lo-sec.



The reason some sov space IS safe enough to rat and mine isnt because of lack of enemies though, it is because of time spent by entities setting up defences, upgrades, intel and security, all this takes huge manpower and resources and should therefore be rewarded well. Lowsec is the place that needs the biggest buff tbh.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-13 17:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
Tippia wrote:
Zyress wrote:
According to the source you posted 70% also like mission running and more people 31% run missions than any other activity. Only 19% do Pvp. Seems like they do get more money from mission runners than any other activity group according to your source.
…which is a separate question. Yes, a lot of people run missions. That's because everyone needs a source of income. Does this mean that more people are “mission runners”? No. Does it mean that a lot of people are carbears? Definitely not.

And no. More than 19% do PvP — 19% do it as their primary activity (which is pretty darn high seeing as how it's inherently a money-losing activity). And considering the other categories, you have to wonder if these are just the empire PvPers talking, since the 0.0 guys have their own bar… Blink


If more people run missions as their primary activity than any other activity, then why as a game manufacturerer would you want to make it an unpleasant or boring and less rewarding activity? Why would you want to make your game less enjoyable to play?
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#57 - 2012-07-13 17:39:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Do faction warfare. It has by far the best frigate pvp going and frigate pvp is by far the most fun.


Um.... I would say that RvB has the best frigate pvp. We really do burn through the frigates.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-07-13 17:39:50 UTC
that all depends on who defines it.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-07-13 17:40:45 UTC
Rashmika Clavain wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.

If you are unhappy with how hisec is, try something else.


How about more reward in Low-Sec and Null-Sec? Smile

(...and I don't mean moving Tech Moons to one area of space >_> )



no null sec does not need any more reward ... at all.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-07-13 17:45:21 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Zyress wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Hisec needs to be lower reward due to its lower risk and dont even start on how risky hisec is, that has been done to death.


Nice debate there bro. Imagine that in court.

"You need to be put in jail for life due to the fact I think you murdered this person and don't even start on that alibi crap because it's been done to death."



Okay mate, first of all;

1. This is EvE. Not your local court house. EVE =/= IRL.
2. I agree on your sarcasm wiith the "risky high sec" deal, High Sec isn't that risky. Although I'd rather sit in a hulk in 0.0 than in any High sec system.
3. High sec does need to be lower reward due to the lower risk.


I'll concede your first point. IRL you make more money in places of high population and stability like New York City or in game say jita. Your 2nd point and your 3rd point are contradictory, SOV null-sec is safer than high sec for those that are blue so I'm not seeing any validity to your 3rd point. If risk vs reward are your measures for income level then the highest income should be in NPC Nullsec, then Wormhole then Lo-sec.



The reason some sov space IS safe enough to rat and mine isnt because of lack of enemies though, it is because of time spent by entities setting up defences, upgrades, intel and security, all this takes huge manpower and resources and should therefore be rewarded well. Lowsec is the place that needs the biggest buff tbh.


According to this source Source The largest amount of ships (mainly Battleships) destroyed anywhere in the game over any given time period is in Jita, high-sec. That makes Jita the most dangerous system in the game. Concord will not save you, they just exact a price from the attacker, the victims get nothing.