EVE General Discussion

Oh man. That SoCo FC has to be the most unpleasant person to ever play a videogame.

With these comms out there for everyone, how can people still think of the goons as the bad ones? I mean, come on. How pityful and devoid of any selfrespect does a person have to be to join a spaceship game only to fly under such ridiculous pieces of dregs like this Maka guy?

Keep up fighting the good fight, TEST and Goons, until you purged every one of these soulless fun-haters from the game. Kudos for actually having fun playing this game. You rock.

I'll give it to nulli, you guys at least fought back with some semblance of effort. Your allies on the other hand...treated you guys like a meat shield. Sadly nulli leaders don't see it like that, at least reading soco leadership chat logs. Best -A- can hope for is we get bored or they can entice solar to help them. There pet renters sure won't.

Undock.

Are you mad that they didnt ?

So whose help would you try to get, if any?!

The CFC offered to help you take -A- space to live in but stay neutral for ~gudfites~, but you guys wouldn't backstab -A- despite them being terrible allies because of e-honour

Edit: Also Wallpapers are ******* Spartans

I realized my last post was a little flippant, for which I apologize. An honest question deserves an honest answer, and if it wasn't an honest question, well, you're getting an honest answer anyway. Nullsec wars aren't fought for (or won by) isk, sov, or killboards. It's about morale, prestige, and pride - hence the often hilariously minor slights that spark incredibly resilient blood feuds. As such, the loss of sov itself isn't a huge blow - sov, while nice, offers no overwhelming benefit, as any lowsec alliance will attest. The reason nullsec alliances hold sov is that holding sov is what nullsec alliances do. WIthout sov, you're not a true nullsec alliance, and therefore not important to nullsec politics. (There are exceptions, but I would think their rarity and notability would make it clear they prove the rule.)

The SoCo leaders accurately realized what this war wasn't about (sov), but completely failed to miss what it WAS about. Realizing their own willingness to commit and their relative numbers, they decided the war was unwinnable in terms of direct combat. I'm sure they know their own alliance better than me, so they were probably right. But their strategy of 'blueballing' and refusing to undock was complete folly. I'm frankly amazed they so completely misunderstood the CFC and HBC mindset to think that it was a good strategy.

Leaving aside the final stage of the plan (wait for the DelveJam forces to get bored and go home) hasn't taken place yet - which, I might add, I expect the SoCo leaders will be sorely disappointed in terms of northern bloody mindedness - they've already concede a huge victory for absolutely no reason. Some of you have pointed at the loss of morale from structure grinds, blue balls, and lack of any real fights. You completely missed the huge coup scored in terms of morale and prestige in protraying us as the unstoppable gods of the North, whose mere rumor of deployment causes a panicked retreat to NPC space, and who in a few short days rule the field.

You see why this would stoke our ego, right? Perhaps it's not completely true, but it's not difficult at all to mold the facts to fit this narrative, and that's effectively the same thing.

Which, if you pardon my digression, brings me back to my original post - you should have undocked. Not because I think you would have fought us off, I doubt you could succeed in that if your own leaders have already decided it was a pipe dream. But because through easy, cheap fleet compositions, you could have caused no small amount of annoyance - turning the unopposed steamroll into something closer to the much mocked ~wulfpax~ guerrilla war. T1 cruiser fleets are cheap and easily replaced, and have to be treated with as much caution by sieged dreads as a loki or tengu fleet. You could have easily run daily harrassment ops with these disposable fleets. You would lose MAYBE two billion isk for welping a drake fleet, and would have easily extended the war a week. A halfway decent commitment of supercapitals in low-risk situations, and it could have been a month, easily. An entire month where you lose nothing that line members could rat up in a few hours, commit to fights entirely on your own terms, and finangle the occasional hilariously painful welp. If you don't believe me, just look at the Wallrippers.

If your alliance leaders accepted that defeat was a foregone conclusion, why didn't they make it a Pyrrhic victory? Why didn't they boost member morale with active and ultimately painless resistance? Why did they let us win an overwhelming propaganda victory at practically no cost?

Moreover, there's the issues of coalition politics. When fighting a war where you had no stake in victory, the advantage was entirely on your side. You could have fostered cross-corp relationships - having your line members fly with ally FCs, and grow that valuable cult of personality that gets people to X up. You could have improved coalition communication. Heck, you practically had a practice war to breed a new crop of bloc FCs! And if you lost, well - throw out a billion isk in reimbursement, and remind everybody that you were never going to win anyway, so who gives a toss about a few dead omens, or hurricanes, or drakes, or whatever you got killed.

Meanwhile, on the other side, you gave us an easy, ego-boosting war to patch up any cracks that might have appeared between the CFC and the HBC. That, alone, is probably the most hilariously stupid thing your leaders did. You had a small, supposedly buried, but still not altogether forgetten rivalry between two powerful alliances, and you gave them an overwhelmingly successful joint campaign to patch it up over. Everybody is friendly when everything is going well. The old rivalry is all but forgotten. Shadoo has renewed and strengthened his cult of personality among the CFC line members. Countless newbie FCs have gotten to take out strategic fleets with their training wheels on, achieving victory and defeat with no long term consequences. Pay attention to the name of those newbie FCs, by the way. They'll be leading bloc-level fleets in the next major war.

So yeah, you stayed docked, gave us a huge propaganda victory that we can crow about for the next nine months, healed an old rivalry that threatened to one day destroy the bropact, and provided a training grounds for the future military leaders of the CFC and HBC coalitions, and ultimately gambled that we'll get bored and not give the space to competent allies. Next time, I would suggest undocking.

Only thing happening here is the biggest example of game imbalance ever seen in Eveonline, one side controls all the TEC otherside dosen't, rest you be able to figure out.

Tech only incidentally mattered here when our enemies decided that their preferred combat ships for their line members were 500M each. Ours are 50.

Hey, I'm drunk, lazy, and on vacation. Somebody link to the soundcloud of Mala refusing to undock his loki fleet for two hours while we burned down sov. Or the pos.jpeg from oh, July 9th. Or, you know, a dotlan map of Delve. Or the Day Five commander channel intel leak, about a half hour in IIRC.

The fact of the matter is, sov mechanics favor the defender, but I don't think we missed a single timer. You can try to spin it, you can ignore your own leaders' orders, you can demand that I prove a negative, but the fact remains. You guys, as a conscious strategic decision, decided to stay docked, and I think it was a bad decision.

Edit: Claiming that isk is what you stopped you is a cop out and you know it. You undocked, and welped, a loki fleet. You're telling me you couldn't afford a cruiser fleet (or 40)? And if you're claiming they'd be ineffective, well... wallripers. It really doesn't take much, dude.