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Delve ell oh ell wtf...
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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#61 - 2012-07-12 22:15:20 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
but then again i have seen peeps like goons/bob take over way too much space and then they end up loosing a boat load later (i would say 6 months) due to not being able to fight on several fronts...

so even if goons do win and it looks like they will... give it half a year and they will be back to where they started.



AND that's the downside of the the SOV system in eve. no reasons to not own SOV is 100's of empty systems you never use or defend. This is just a natural effect of that. The war will happen when they reach the real borders of the allaince. The rest is empty space, tech income. eve null sec warfare is wierd like that.

hopefully the winter expansion i hear has some changes to sov warfare to make it so you have a reason to own 40 systems, versus 300. You could strill moon mine in those systems and push your infulance into them by setting up POS and roams. But you shouldn't be able to get sov at such large levels. I think it's ok if the sov map in eve had large empty areas between players, that would MAKE SENSE.


Why would it make more sense than alliances owning everything they can? You don't see a no-man's-land between countries.

N. & S. Korea? Berlin Wall? no-man's-land will fill in between any hostile countries that don't have a MAD policy.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2012-07-12 22:16:03 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
SoCo's strategy of 'we'll take it back' relies on CFC+HB not actually, you know, filling that space with allies. Exactly like all the space we didn't fill elsewhere.


Exactly, I mean look at Branch and Tenal. No one moved in there after we took it.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2012-07-12 22:18:14 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
but then again i have seen peeps like goons/bob take over way too much space and then they end up loosing a boat load later (i would say 6 months) due to not being able to fight on several fronts...

so even if goons do win and it looks like they will... give it half a year and they will be back to where they started.



AND that's the downside of the the SOV system in eve. no reasons to not own SOV is 100's of empty systems you never use or defend. This is just a natural effect of that. The war will happen when they reach the real borders of the allaince. The rest is empty space, tech income. eve null sec warfare is wierd like that.

hopefully the winter expansion i hear has some changes to sov warfare to make it so you have a reason to own 40 systems, versus 300. You could strill moon mine in those systems and push your infulance into them by setting up POS and roams. But you shouldn't be able to get sov at such large levels. I think it's ok if the sov map in eve had large empty areas between players, that would MAKE SENSE.


Why would it make more sense than alliances owning everything they can? You don't see a no-man's-land between countries.

N. & S. Korea? Berlin Wall? no-man's-land will fill in between any hostile countries that don't have a MAD policy.


Both sides still own the zone next to the border though. In eve this border is the regional stargate.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#64 - 2012-07-12 22:19:14 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
but then again i have seen peeps like goons/bob take over way too much space and then they end up loosing a boat load later (i would say 6 months) due to not being able to fight on several fronts...

so even if goons do win and it looks like they will... give it half a year and they will be back to where they started.



AND that's the downside of the the SOV system in eve. no reasons to not own SOV is 100's of empty systems you never use or defend. This is just a natural effect of that. The war will happen when they reach the real borders of the allaince. The rest is empty space, tech income. eve null sec warfare is wierd like that.

hopefully the winter expansion i hear has some changes to sov warfare to make it so you have a reason to own 40 systems, versus 300. You could strill moon mine in those systems and push your infulance into them by setting up POS and roams. But you shouldn't be able to get sov at such large levels. I think it's ok if the sov map in eve had large empty areas between players, that would MAKE SENSE.


Why would it make more sense than alliances owning everything they can? You don't see a no-man's-land between countries.

N. & S. Korea? Berlin Wall? no-man's-land will fill in between any hostile countries that don't have a MAD policy.


Both sides still own the zone next to the border though. In eve this border is the regional stargate.

Yah.... that's a good point. I guess it's not a good analogy.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-07-12 22:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortimer Civeri
KrakizBad wrote:
SoCo's strategy of 'we'll take it back' relies on CFC+HB not actually, you know, filling that space with allies. Exactly like all the space we didn't fill elsewhere.

So, which pets allies get Delve?

EDIT: or are you just going to carve it up into little dachas / country cottages?

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#66 - 2012-07-12 22:31:04 UTC
Probably not the Great Worker's Union of Aliastra, sorry.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2012-07-12 22:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
SoCo's strategy of 'we'll take it back' relies on CFC+HB not actually, you know, filling that space with allies. Exactly like all the space we didn't fill elsewhere.

So, which pets allies get Delve?

EDIT: or are you just going to carve it up into little dachas / country cottages?


No idea TEST are distributing it as they see fit.

EDIT: GSF is getting a holiday constellation for staging against catch because -A- are just too fun to taunt.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-07-12 22:42:58 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
but then again i have seen peeps like goons/bob take over way too much space and then they end up loosing a boat load later (i would say 6 months) due to not being able to fight on several fronts...

so even if goons do win and it looks like they will... give it half a year and they will be back to where they started.



AND that's the downside of the the SOV system in eve. no reasons to not own SOV is 100's of empty systems you never use or defend. This is just a natural effect of that. The war will happen when they reach the real borders of the allaince. The rest is empty space, tech income. eve null sec warfare is wierd like that.

hopefully the winter expansion i hear has some changes to sov warfare to make it so you have a reason to own 40 systems, versus 300. You could strill moon mine in those systems and push your infulance into them by setting up POS and roams. But you shouldn't be able to get sov at such large levels. I think it's ok if the sov map in eve had large empty areas between players, that would MAKE SENSE.


Why would it make more sense than alliances owning everything they can? You don't see a no-man's-land between countries.


Yeah that's the point though, in eve you DO see a "no-man's-land between countries" it's just empty system after empty system. That's not what you see real counties doing in real life. People live in and use every area they can, unless it's unlivable. But in eve we don't have that problem.

The fact of the matter is that people just take systems without any intent to defend them, or use them. Because there is no downside to it. So it leaves all of 0.0 choked up and smaller alliances can't fill in the no mans land. If you had to actually defend and hold space to get that sweet sweet moon tech income, then eve could be an exciting battlefield in null sec again.

Basiclly saying , hey you need sov to mine moons. And then setting goals on how to take sov. basically require some build up and infrastructure before the map says "you own this space"

Then when you get more members you can expand your empire, and so on. Every system would be full of people, but empty systems would fall because you can't just passively gain sov in my dream version of eve online. you have to live in your space.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-07-12 22:46:54 UTC
Degren wrote:
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Degren wrote:
Correct things
angry things


Sounds like someone should have undocked in something besides T3s.

Or, assuming you're Nulli, probably shouldn't have batphoned and chest thumped.

Please, feel free to continue blaming everyone but yourselves.

o7m8


Sounds like someone should stop assuming I am a member of any party in this war.

Then maybe your posts would be worth the time to read.

m8m8m8m8ohseven



Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-07-12 22:51:53 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Due to the amount of time it took the goon and pets to clear Delve, its apparent that sov structures need more ehp or timers or switch back to the old sov mechanics.


or it means they could of brought out just as many ships and DEFENDED THEMSELVES. The fix isn't some buff or game design change. It's working as intended. You have to actually defend your systems! gasps! over expanding shouldn't be safe. They are eating undefended systems, of course it's easy.


So what you are saying is they should nerf jump bridges and capital/super jump range. That would help not over extend themselves.

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-07-12 22:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
MotherMoon wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
but then again i have seen peeps like goons/bob take over way too much space and then they end up loosing a boat load later (i would say 6 months) due to not being able to fight on several fronts...

so even if goons do win and it looks like they will... give it half a year and they will be back to where they started.



AND that's the downside of the the SOV system in eve. no reasons to not own SOV is 100's of empty systems you never use or defend. This is just a natural effect of that. The war will happen when they reach the real borders of the allaince. The rest is empty space, tech income. eve null sec warfare is wierd like that.

hopefully the winter expansion i hear has some changes to sov warfare to make it so you have a reason to own 40 systems, versus 300. You could strill moon mine in those systems and push your infulance into them by setting up POS and roams. But you shouldn't be able to get sov at such large levels. I think it's ok if the sov map in eve had large empty areas between players, that would MAKE SENSE.


Why would it make more sense than alliances owning everything they can? You don't see a no-man's-land between countries.


Yeah that's the point though, in eve you DO see a "no-man's-land between countries" it's just empty system after empty system. That's not what you see real counties doing in real life. People live in and use every area they can, unless it's unlivable. But in eve we don't have that problem.

The fact of the matter is that people just take systems without any intent to defend them, or use them. Because there is no downside to it. So it leaves all of 0.0 choked up and smaller alliances can't fill in the no mans land. If you had to actually defend and hold space to get that sweet sweet moon tech income, then eve could be an exciting battlefield in null sec again.

Basiclly saying , hey you need sov to mine moons. And then setting goals on how to take sov. basically require some build up and infrastructure before the map says "you own this space"

Then when you get more members you can expand your empire, and so on. Every system would be full of people, but empty systems would fall because you can't just passively gain sov in my dream version of eve online. you have to live in your space.


Full systems are a nightmare to actually live in though. We prefer having 5 people in 10 systems over 50 in one. You're vision is fin but you're ideal population density is miles off.
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-07-12 22:52:20 UTC
triple posting like a boss.

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2012-07-12 22:53:13 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Due to the amount of time it took the goon and pets to clear Delve, its apparent that sov structures need more ehp or timers or switch back to the old sov mechanics.


or it means they could of brought out just as many ships and DEFENDED THEMSELVES. The fix isn't some buff or game design change. It's working as intended. You have to actually defend your systems! gasps! over expanding shouldn't be safe. They are eating undefended systems, of course it's easy.


So what you are saying is they should nerf jump bridges and capital/super jump range. That would help not over extend themselves.


Did we gank your hulk or something? You seem angry brother.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2012-07-12 23:18:17 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
SoCo's strategy of 'we'll take it back' relies on CFC+HB not actually, you know, filling that space with allies. Exactly like all the space we didn't fill elsewhere.

So, which allies get Delve?


TASHA and 99% will get their share for fighting alongside us. Goons will get some systems to stage out of for stomping -A- and to extend the Eye of Terror. PL may or may not take some sov. Hell, xXDeathXx might get some sov too, not like we don't have room.
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-07-12 23:56:16 UTC
Damn, this actually sounds like fun. Are there any decently-written blogs that follow the events and possibly give some background information to people that are not particularly familiar with null-sec politics? Maybe with some background information on the different power blocks?

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#76 - 2012-07-13 00:12:28 UTC
darmwand wrote:
Damn, this actually sounds like fun. Are there any decently-written blogs that follow the events and possibly give some background information to people that are not particularly familiar with null-sec politics? Maybe with some background information on the different power blocks?

Yes, read this: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/07/07/elise-randolph-regional-update-soco-failure-the-fall-of-delve/
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-07-13 00:12:57 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
I'm not a fan of blob warfare, but it's actually pretty impressive to see the speed of sov changes on dotlan.

Edit: I mean especially looking at the map.


That's nothing compared to the speed they lost Delve when they forgot to pay their bills.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#78 - 2012-07-13 00:36:20 UTC
I still can't believe something like this happened in the Summer Shocked

Signatures should be used responsibly...
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-07-13 00:56:35 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
darmwand wrote:
Damn, this actually sounds like fun. Are there any decently-written blogs that follow the events and possibly give some background information to people that are not particularly familiar with null-sec politics? Maybe with some background information on the different power blocks?

Yes, read this: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/07/07/elise-randolph-regional-update-soco-failure-the-fall-of-delve/


Thanks, great writeup, and wow, this is some crazy stuff that you people in null are getting yourselves into. I'll have to keep following this while I try to steer my little frigate through lowsec, pretending not to be at least slightly jealous Smile

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-07-13 01:14:02 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
abloobllooooo


Worthy enough to get a response, friend alt.

Attn Nulli, Wallpapers and PANGU: Seriously, no hard feelings. I had some seriously good convos with some of you folks. Except for your whole military ranking thing, Nulli, thats just awful. Really bad. But your people are mostly great.

-A- though...holy mother of **** you guys are just ****** people.

Stop following Makalu, I refuse to believe thats the best you guys have. There are quite a few of you.

Hello, hello again.