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Cry cry cry, Remove ECM.
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Mata1s
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-08 19:34:45 UTC
blah blah blah it makes the game more complicated, it ******* sucks and ruins pvp, same with offgrid boosters.

My Ham drake (((((

wtb csm candidate who has this as his only priority.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-07-08 21:19:01 UTC
Mata1s wrote:

wtb csm candidate who has this as his only priority.


http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=968281&page=1

I trust I have your vote for CSM 8?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-08 22:12:56 UTC
The problem with 'remove ECM' platforms is that the poster advocating it almost always comes up with replacement suggestions that are utterly useless.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Americe Zane
The Lucky Punx
#4 - 2012-07-09 09:54:25 UTC
Why would you want to remove ECCM?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-07-09 10:03:42 UTC
the solution to ECM is to kill the Falcon

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#6 - 2012-07-10 02:16:17 UTC
Change the way ECM works, I personly suggest that ECM only breaks the lock, but doesn't prevent the target from relocking right away... you may say this would nerf ECM into the ground, and I would agree, but it wouldn't become useless by any means just because of that...

With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)

This would actually increase the survivability of a falcon as it will have a higher chance to get points away from them by simply breaking the lock...

"But now ECM is completly useless"... wrong! (and right to a degree) ECM combined with sensor dampning would become a powerful combo, break lock, prevent target some locking fast enough, break locking again, (continue)


Why?... Because ECM makes a target completly unable to defend himself, unless he is using smartbombs... drones are out and agressed... or has "FoF missshuuurrls"

:) Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems people saying that people whine about ECM... are infact the people whining because they don't want their ECM nerfed

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-07-10 09:08:36 UTC
"Let's nerf the only newbie-friendly PvP role other than tackling"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-07-11 05:44:37 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
"Let's nerf the only newbie-friendly PvP role other than tackling"

You really need to stop putting words in peoples mouths. Don't be that guy. Straight
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#9 - 2012-07-11 08:43:57 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)


You realise that for most instances this would make ECM even more powerful right ?

A smaller cycle time means you have about as much time to lock and take 1 shot between cycles, instead of what it is atm where you can get off a couple of volleys usually before you are rejammed.

This would by and far help people who had just newly acquired ECM and not maxed the skills out.

I personally would love this. I usually hit 1 jammer, see if it jams then go to the next and stagger jams until I get a hit anyhow.. If I had 2 jammers on someone it would mean say 5 seconds of not being jammed with 2 jammers instead of 10...

Just no... ECM is powerful enough. It SOUNDS like a good idea (which has been said before), not sure you've really thought it through...

Next you'll suggest buffs to mining barges to increase miner income.

.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#10 - 2012-07-11 22:41:23 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Change the way ECM works, I personly suggest that ECM only breaks the lock, but doesn't prevent the target from relocking right away... you may say this would nerf ECM into the ground, and I would agree, but it wouldn't become useless by any means just because of that...

With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)

This would actually increase the survivability of a falcon as it will have a higher chance to get points away from them by simply breaking the lock...

"But now ECM is completly useless"... wrong! (and right to a degree) ECM combined with sensor dampning would become a powerful combo, break lock, prevent target some locking fast enough, break locking again, (continue)


Why?... Because ECM makes a target completly unable to defend himself, unless he is using smartbombs... drones are out and agressed... or has "FoF missshuuurrls"

:) Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems people saying that people whine about ECM... are infact the people whining because they don't want their ECM nerfed

I like this. Changes the way ECM works, but does not make it like the other Ewar. And would also make damps worth something.Lol
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#11 - 2012-07-11 23:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Revolution Rising wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)


You realise that for most instances this would make ECM even more powerful right ?

A smaller cycle time means you have about as much time to lock and take 1 shot between cycles, instead of what it is atm where you can get off a couple of volleys usually before you are rejammed.

This would by and far help people who had just newly acquired ECM and not maxed the skills out.

I personally would love this. I usually hit 1 jammer, see if it jams then go to the next and stagger jams until I get a hit anyhow.. If I had 2 jammers on someone it would mean say 5 seconds of not being jammed with 2 jammers instead of 10...

Just no... ECM is powerful enough. It SOUNDS like a good idea (which has been said before), not sure you've really thought it through...

Next you'll suggest buffs to mining barges to increase miner income.


It seems the guy below your post understood better what I meant, as it wouldn't make ecm more powerful than it is already, only breaking the lock of the target wouldnt put them out of combat completly for the current jam duration that we have now, it would only put them out of combat until they relocked the target. So fast locking ships would be able to reengage fast... while slow locking ships might still find themselves "perma jammed"...

This is why I mentioned sensor damps as this new ecm would work great together, (make a target take forever to relock and then get their lock broken again)

And it wouldn't become too powerful, only if the devs didn't balance it right... let's say that the falcon should retain the current average jam time as it has now, by that I don't mean each jam lasts for 20-24 sec, but that the target is losing lock consistently with what we have now, so the average time the target is unable to fight back is about the same(after considering locking time on an average battlecruiser)...

Did I mention this is a nice buff to sensor damps? It will make the damp script for scan res become much more useful when flying fleets... falcon + arazu will be the new OP :)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#12 - 2012-07-12 19:36:17 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)


You realise that for most instances this would make ECM even more powerful right ?

A smaller cycle time means you have about as much time to lock and take 1 shot between cycles, instead of what it is atm where you can get off a couple of volleys usually before you are rejammed.

This would by and far help people who had just newly acquired ECM and not maxed the skills out.

I personally would love this. I usually hit 1 jammer, see if it jams then go to the next and stagger jams until I get a hit anyhow.. If I had 2 jammers on someone it would mean say 5 seconds of not being jammed with 2 jammers instead of 10...

Just no... ECM is powerful enough. It SOUNDS like a good idea (which has been said before), not sure you've really thought it through...

Next you'll suggest buffs to mining barges to increase miner income.


It seems the guy below your post understood better what I meant, as it wouldn't make ecm more powerful than it is already, only breaking the lock of the target wouldnt put them out of combat completly for the current jam duration that we have now, it would only put them out of combat until they relocked the target. So fast locking ships would be able to reengage fast... while slow locking ships might still find themselves "perma jammed"...

This is why I mentioned sensor damps as this new ecm would work great together, (make a target take forever to relock and then get their lock broken again)

And it wouldn't become too powerful, only if the devs didn't balance it right... let's say that the falcon should retain the current average jam time as it has now, by that I don't mean each jam lasts for 20-24 sec, but that the target is losing lock consistently with what we have now, so the average time the target is unable to fight back is about the same(after considering locking time on an average battlecruiser)...

Did I mention this is a nice buff to sensor damps? It will make the damp script for scan res become much more useful when flying fleets... falcon + arazu will be the new OP :)


Even if it was a small ship, the fact that they are in something like a jag and get off 1 burst of their ac's every 30 seconds or so - still makes them useless if not totally permajammed. I see no difference between a large ship with slow lock being permajammed and a small ship with fast lock but low dps getting a volley "every now and again".

It's a pointless difference.

If you change ECM you'd have to basically change the very nature of the mechanic imo. As it is 20 seconds is fine for a ship to possibly get off a volley - even a large ship - and making that cycle time smaller would greatly increase the ECM power not make it less.

If you want a good example look at the caldari POS BONUS to ecm. It reduces cycle time - for a reason.
And that reason is that it's a bonus not a nerf.

.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#13 - 2012-07-12 19:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Revolution Rising wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
With that change, they could at the same time increase the chance of a successful jam, they could decrease the cycle time of the ECM modules... (adjust cap useage to match current)


You realise that for most instances this would make ECM even more powerful right ?

A smaller cycle time means you have about as much time to lock and take 1 shot between cycles, instead of what it is atm where you can get off a couple of volleys usually before you are rejammed.

This would by and far help people who had just newly acquired ECM and not maxed the skills out.

I personally would love this. I usually hit 1 jammer, see if it jams then go to the next and stagger jams until I get a hit anyhow.. If I had 2 jammers on someone it would mean say 5 seconds of not being jammed with 2 jammers instead of 10...

Just no... ECM is powerful enough. It SOUNDS like a good idea (which has been said before), not sure you've really thought it through...

Next you'll suggest buffs to mining barges to increase miner income.


It seems the guy below your post understood better what I meant, as it wouldn't make ecm more powerful than it is already, only breaking the lock of the target wouldnt put them out of combat completly for the current jam duration that we have now, it would only put them out of combat until they relocked the target. So fast locking ships would be able to reengage fast... while slow locking ships might still find themselves "perma jammed"...

This is why I mentioned sensor damps as this new ecm would work great together, (make a target take forever to relock and then get their lock broken again)

And it wouldn't become too powerful, only if the devs didn't balance it right... let's say that the falcon should retain the current average jam time as it has now, by that I don't mean each jam lasts for 20-24 sec, but that the target is losing lock consistently with what we have now, so the average time the target is unable to fight back is about the same(after considering locking time on an average battlecruiser)...

Did I mention this is a nice buff to sensor damps? It will make the damp script for scan res become much more useful when flying fleets... falcon + arazu will be the new OP :)


Even if it was a small ship, the fact that they are in something like a jag and get off 1 burst of their ac's every 30 seconds or so - still makes them useless if not totally permajammed. I see no difference between a large ship with slow lock being permajammed and a small ship with fast lock but low dps getting a volley "every now and again".

It's a pointless difference.

If you change ECM you'd have to basically change the very nature of the mechanic imo. As it is 20 seconds is fine for a ship to possibly get off a volley - even a large ship - and making that cycle time smaller would greatly increase the ECM power not make it less.

If you want a good example look at the caldari POS BONUS to ecm. It reduces cycle time - for a reason.
And that reason is that it's a bonus not a nerf.


You again seemed to miss my point... that the jam wouldn't keep the target jammed, just break the lock...

But heres where the better balance comes into play... being jammed for 20 sec in small gang pvp makes all the difference.... it doesn't take much longer than that to kill a ship, maybe if your in a decent tank vs less decent dps... your ship will last longer... but nothing is more annoying than being unable to fight back for 20 sec... if you were constantly losing lock, but at least could relock and then fire a few shots, or whatever... then it would "feel" less overpowered... or gamebreaking, as you would at least be able to fight back some

PS... you can't just say and assume something would be more powerful and more or less op, without considering what numbers would and stats would be used, that's part of the balancing... it would only become more or less powerful if balanced wrong!

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#14 - 2012-07-12 20:31:50 UTC
let's say for the fun of it, that ECM wasn't changed like I first suggested, but instead:
Changed jam duration to 5 sec, module cycle changed to 5 sec, cap use reduced by 400% (to remain at same useage)

This wouldn't change the chance you had to jam someone, on average the person would be jammed for the same amount of time without considering locking time... so it would actually be a buff... but at the same time the person being attacked might have more chances to fight back

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Mata1s
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-07-14 08:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mata1s
Richard Desturned wrote:
the solution to ECM is to kill the Falcon


lol troll or just stupid?

I like ECM in big fleet fights like when a side brings Scorpions to jam logistic ships etc, but when one ship counter so so many no matter how many useless ECCM mods you put on. 1 Sabre and 1 Falcon with good pilots take out anything that isn't specifically set up to counter them.

It's a nice addition and compliments big fleet fights but it destroys solo/duo/trio brawling pvp.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-16 14:02:19 UTC
Mata1s wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
the solution to ECM is to kill the Falcon


lol troll or just stupid?

I like ECM in big fleet fights like when a side brings Scorpions to jam logistic ships etc, but when one ship counter so so many no matter how many useless ECCM mods you put on. 1 Sabre and 1 Falcon with good pilots take out anything that isn't specifically set up to counter them.

It's a nice addition and compliments big fleet fights but it destroys solo/duo/trio brawling pvp.



So you need to take in mind that either:

1) your 3 man team needs to watch out for Falcons and Sabres
2) Bring a set up that hurts them

Doesn't realy look like something that is different from many other occupations within EVE.

When I'm ratting I need to look out for you and your two buddies, or should you be nerfed not to be able to attack me, I don't stand a chance when I'm jumped by 3 ships.

All the EMC threads tend to just want to remove the fact that your maxed out DPS, EHP fit can be countered by something else than more DPS of EHP.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-17 04:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
Marconus Orion wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
"Let's nerf the only newbie-friendly PvP role other than tackling"

You really need to stop putting words in peoples mouths. Don't be that guy. Straight


That may not be precisely what was said, but it is the effect it will have. It is possible to infer what a person really means by what they say, even when the two are different.

Eve. Roll "I find this aspect of the game to be challenging. Remove it."

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#18 - 2012-07-19 04:51:00 UTC
How about...No.

Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#19 - 2012-07-23 06:38:48 UTC
BUFF ECM.

.
Sclario Cassanova
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-07-23 06:45:25 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
BUFF ECM.


Actually I just got in into PVP just to try ECM agaisnt some Minmatar ships. I love their tears. Thats my only reason to get into fights, my ECM modules.

If they nerf ECM's they should do the same with all other types of e-warfare. Also thats why they are some modules called 'ECCM'. Just saying.
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