EVE General Discussion

Hey OP, would you f*ck or kill your clone self?

That's the only question that matters in your little existential morass.

When you get podded, the character should be removed from your account and given to a rookie.

When the heck will hulu be viewable from outside the USofA already ?

Exactly.

It's like the old floppy discs.

You could copy data from the disc to a hard drive.

The data is just copied; duplicated. It is not actually "transferred" in the way we think of it.

Even when you "cut and paste", all that's happening is a copy is being made whilst the original is deleted.

The point is that you sitting at your computer are the original. If you were to be "cut and pasted" into a new body, YOU would crease to exist. Your subjective experience of the Universe would end.

It took me the entire intro of Games of thrones to finish reading the thread.

Nice post OP !

It basically comes down to that age old question "Is there more then just your body?"

Religions would tell you you have a soul that is eternal and you would go to some heaven or hell after the body dies, leaving a rotting corpse behind. About 1-2 centuries ago there was a guy who weighted bodies before and after death,... and he concluded the soul actually had weight. Though I do not recall his name (not sure, but I think he was a Victorian),... he was mistaken and forgot that some fluids dissipate as a normal process of the decomposing of the body. His socalled scientific measuring the weight of the soul, has been disproven later on multiple times.

There are some nice scifi movies to look back on, concerning this very subject.

In "The 6th Day" with Arnold Schwarzenegger, he actually gets to meet his clone,... and both think -at first- they are the real person. When they finally realise that in the cloning proces a marked spot is left behind the eyelids, so you can tell if it is a clone or not.

In the latest "Battlestar Gallactica" series, you have ofcourse The Cylons, who kinda do what we do here in the EVE universe. When a Cylon dies, and is within range of a resurection ship, his "concious" get uploaded into a new body. If he is not near a resurection ship,... the Cylon dies "for real" and all his previous life experiences get lost.

In Star Trek, all across the range of all those various series, there are numerous episodes that theme on getting eternal life. There, it sometimes goes from the strong mystical, to "simple" technological ways. But I'll not mention any of them, to keep this post short.

Personally, I am an Atheist,... I do not believe in souls. The issue with abortions sometimes have been about the fact of conciousness. Law in most countries that allow abortions, is sometimes based on the fact of conciousness. When is a child concidered to be a human and capable of thought-process, having a conciousness? Some religious people believe you have a soul the moment you are created, as such,.. when those 2 cells, 1 from male, 1 from female, mix.

The longest living cells in your body are nerve cells. But when you are just a few pounds as a baby when you are born, and perhaps 80 kilo's when you die,... clearly something has happened with your body whole during your life. You gained weight from the moment you are born, you loose/shedd cells too during your lifetime. Cells get replaced. Your body is NEVER the same!

So what is conciousness? It clearly cannot be directly linked to your body, as that changes all the time. Clear from evidence is that conscioness "lives" in your brain. Is conciousness nothing more then the processing of data? Because,... the data processing tool -your body- changes all the time. But your brain is never 100% the same either, during your lifetime. Diseases like Alzheimer come to mind.

I think someone said above in a previous reply .... "you are your brain"... Rightly so.... or not?

Is the software you and your conciousness (?),.... or are you and your conciosness, something that are caused by your software and hardware. The latter being your brain ofcourse.

Personally, I would say both. As the great [b[][u]Carl Sagan[/u[[/b] so pretty put it "We are made of Stardust" ! ... We have molecules in our bodies that came in to existance after the death of stars, millions and millions of years ago. (!!!)

Both the first two scifi examples, imho, are true.

If,... in "the 6th day" Schwarzenegger's raw brain data was copied 100% accurate,.... into new hardware - read body- then it is fully understandable, and rightly so,... that both are the real mccoy. Both are that same character. Afterall,... from the few pound baby to the kilogram's heavy corpse example... it is already clear the body does not have to be 100% the same, to think them of being the same person,... provided the conciousness is always active and continuating during a single life cycle (is it?).

In "Battlestar Gallactica" the Cylons copy just the data,.... into a new Cylon body. They concider it eternal life.

If the result of putting just the data into a new body, results into that clone body becomming concious, even though the originally body may perhaps still be living,... then as I see it,... you will simply have 2 you's,... whom from that time on will start a different path of life. Two consciousness, who then go their seperate path.

Untill science can put the true finger on conciousness,... it shall remain as simple as that. ... I think.

When we die,... I think it is a beautifull thought (as an atheist) to think we are given back to the the universe that gave us life.

But yeah,.... the consciousness of that new clone,... is not the consciouness of the original body. It is the copy of raw data put in a new body, resulting -after being given the gift of life- into the emerging of a new conciousness.

But ... that is me speaking out from within my own consciousness. The clone does not know! That clone is given life, his brain starts to process,.... his conciousness kicks in.... and he lives being me.

The OP started this question about clones,.... but misses that other old question, which is basically the same question.

"I know I am concious,... how can I ever know that all the other people around me are?" ....

And that is where I end this post. ... Think about it. ....


P.S.
Check out this photo.... She -the lady on the left- knows all about the answer to that last question:
http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/1e9efdfd2f9ccdb9ac668dce40e433d1588b25f1.jpg

Why? because you are not interrested in talking about these things?

There is nothing wrong with abit of philosophy.

First... it does not hurt anyone,

Second... it can be educative,

Third... There is nothing wrong with flexing your brain from time to time.

....

Yeah ... okay ... but dont you think it is odd you want to close the thread while during the same post you add to the content of the thread by saying "As far as canon is concerned the consciousness is transferred not just the map of the brain."

Fine Lore-wise,... but the universe is large enough to hold many opinions about it.

I don't know, a lot of people say you are the sum of your experiences, if all the data of your experiences awake in the clone then it certainly thinks it is you, anyone who knew you would not be able to tell the difference unless the resculpting of the biomass the clone was created out of went wrong. And that would just be cosmetic. The genetic material used in the cloning process is supposed to be your's as well so it should have all your predispositions and character traits as well as the data. I'd have no more reservations about being cloned in this way than I would have in stepping into a star trek transporter. Neither is your former physical being but they are you in every other way. The real question is it your conscientness and in everyway that conscientness can be measured, I gusee it is.

I'm guessing this was meant to be posted in IGS.