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Unified Inventory: My Papercuts
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#41 - 2012-07-12 12:29:20 UTC
My only major gripes with the unified inventory are that it's not integrated with your game wide assets and that it doesn't remember the size you set the filters expander thingy at.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Spurty
#42 - 2012-07-12 13:42:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Good luck with that if the inventory system functioning like a modern file system manager upsets you.
The Unified Inventory does not function like a modern file manager. It functions like a quarter-century old file manager.

A modern file manager looks more like this or like this, or hell, even like this, and will generally feature such advanced things as inherently showing and keeping track of two locations at once. Modern file managers are moving away from the tree-view paradigm since it has shown to be cumbersome and wasteful and since there are far better solutions to the problem — Win8 follows this trend.

…it's particularly cumbersome and wasteful if what you're representing isn't even a deeply nested structure of containers.


Your links just made me puke a little .. good grief. Those samples are all hideous. I was talking about modern, not experimental.

- Windows Explorer on Windows 7
- Apple's Finder
- Nautilus on Linux

|Left Pane| Right pane|
|Container|Contents|

What we had before were floating 'buckets' of stuff.

Now we can see whats what and more importantly, which what we're looking at.

Do agree with the random popping up of windows when jumping gates (frustrating). That's got to be just a failure to save state.





There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2012-07-12 14:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Spurty wrote:
I was talking about modern, not experimental.
They are modern. They've been in use and have proven rock solid for a good while now. They passed out of the experimental stage at, oh, the turn of the century or so.

Ok, maybe Quicksilver / Alfred is slightly experimental, but only because it does away with the concept of files and organisation almost entirely and because it's not a file manager as such, but rather an “action manager”… but still, that entire concept is about as odd as what you see on modern mobile OSes (which, with Win8 and Mountain Lion, is starting to seep into the desktop as well).

A modern file browser does not need a tree view. It solves the problem by abstracting away this archaic hierarchical sorting concept. It may offer one as an option, but it's just another form of meta data with no particular primacy over other sorted and filtered views.

Quote:
- Windows Explorer on Windows 7
- Apple's Finder
- Nautilus on Linux
None of those are modern. They all harken back to DOSShell and the like in the mid-'80s with very little improvement done since then. The ones I listed have gone beyond that and work with a “object-action-target” paradigm on top of being able to show the (outdated) tree view abstraction (ok, abstraction is the wrong word since it doesn't actually abstract away anything — it's just a naïve representation of the file categorisation based on a single variable). Granted, Norton Commander was also invented in the '80s as a (vast) improvement over things like DOSShell, but unlike the explorers you listed, it has been further improved since that early start.

Quote:
What we had before were floating 'buckets' of stuff.
Now we can see whats what and more importantly, which what we're looking at.
What we had before were containers that could be combined into contextually sensible collections in accordance with your needs and the space required to make them useful. They showed perfectly well what was what and which “what” you were looking at. This is actually less true now since the separation between inventories no longer exist. You can emulate it, but it requires far more work to set up and maintain since it's a work-around.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-07-12 14:30:52 UTC
There are already better threads then this existing for Unified Inventory, and this topic should have been in F&I; so please honor the new direction this thread has taken. The thread is now about Taco Bars and there distribution/application, not Unified Inventory.

Thank you for your compliance.

James315 for CSM 8!
Zapphire
OBT.
#45 - 2012-07-12 15:06:36 UTC
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1613701&#post1613701
Zapphire
OBT.
#46 - 2012-07-12 15:07:34 UTC
Thank you to the posters who are staying on topic.

Zapphire.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1613701&#post1613701
Zapphire
OBT.
#47 - 2012-07-12 15:11:27 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Well phrased blog about the unified inventory: Tippi's Rants - The Shift-Click, it does nothing!


"Server not found."

Oh well. However, I don't want a discussion in a blog. I want a discussion with the forum posters. Yes, even THESE forum posters. If I could just get them to keep to their own rules and stay on topic...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1613701&#post1613701
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-07-12 15:13:18 UTC
Zapphire wrote:
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.



multiposting threads and expect everybody to honor your opinion you can,t have it both ways

R.S.I2014
Henry Kaine
Royal Amarr Institute
#49 - 2012-07-12 15:25:23 UTC
Zapphire wrote:
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.


That's cute, you think you can moderate your own thread.


SO, back on topic, anyone seen the Doritos taco shells? They look absolutely delicious.
Zapphire
OBT.
#50 - 2012-07-12 15:31:31 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Zapphire wrote:
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.



multiposting threads and expect everybody to honor your opinion you can,t have it both ways


I removed the applicable information I posted in that thread. "Multiposting" due to people avoiding their own dogmatic rules by not staying on topic.

Based on this, yes, I can and do have it both ways.

Thanks!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1613701&#post1613701
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-07-12 15:37:02 UTC
Zapphire wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Zapphire wrote:
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.



multiposting threads and expect everybody to honor your opinion you can,t have it both ways


I removed the applicable information I posted in that thread. "Multiposting" due to people avoiding their own dogmatic rules by not staying on topic.

Based on this, yes, I can and do have it both ways.

Thanks!



Do CCP,s forum overlords think the same?

R.S.I2014
Henry Kaine
Royal Amarr Institute
#52 - 2012-07-12 15:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LoneLynx
Keep out from personal attacks - ISD LoneLynx
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#53 - 2012-07-12 15:39:42 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Do CCP,s forum overlords think the same?
Considering how they personally tried to diffuse discussion of this particular topic over 6-7 different threads, I wouldn't be surprised… Blink
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-07-12 15:44:02 UTC
At least we have a good discussion about Taco,s in this one and a discussion about a place called Wendy,s in the other
so basically you could say these are two different threads

R.S.I2014
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#55 - 2012-07-12 16:24:58 UTC
Zapphire wrote:
Hello,

Yup. It's that time again. But before you get all cranky on me about yet another thread concerning this, let it be known that this post is an attempt to give CCP an idea of what grinds my gears about it. If you are happy with the changes and are unwilling to enter into this discussion with positive feedback; move along. This thread does not welcome you. Hopefully I will express some concerns here that people agree with and maybe we can get some changes made to it.

I am not sure why this new system was implemented. Sometimes a developer just has to make changes to things. Meh. Whatever. It's in the game and it doesn't look like it is just going to vanish suddenly and we will return to the completely satisfactory way things have been done for 9 years.

I do not want to hear about "bots" and "macroers" and all the rest of the "reasons" why this new system exists. I do not care, nor is it relevant. Much like all rules and changes, they usually only end up screwing over the people that aren't breaking any rules or abusing things. Just like in Real Life. Sad. So, I give three banana peels about how this is "supposed to help alleviate blah blah blah". I don't care. This is a discussion that attempts to point out the papercuts experienced while using it.

*waves goodbye to the Old Way™ and grudgingly holds the door open for this new tennant...

Let's just get started here:

  1. Could you please fix it so that the "My Filters" section does not auto pop-up every single time I open the left-hand menu/list?
  2. Can you please fix it so that when I click the little arrows to minimize the "My Filters" section that I do not have to click it twice?
  3. Can you at least try and think of a way that we can control our inventory windows to some degree in regards to having more than one open? I think pinning should allow us to hold open a window if we choose. Some of us aren't botting!
  4. Can we please fix the code that "remembers" where things are placed on our UI?
  5. Is it possible that we could drag a window from the list to open a new one? Again: some of us aren't botting!
  6. Can we please be able to have Corp Hangars be a totally separate entitiy? Can this be an option? Even if I were a macrominer, I'm not sure that the Corp Hangars even has an impact here outside of some asshat using a capital industrial.

Some of the following may or may not be associated with the new inventory system. But I'm going to talk about them anyways. Here are some Spicy Chicken Nuggets from Wendy's™ for anyone who is butthurt over choosing to read this crap.

  1. Can we please have the UI remember that I had the Items tab (merged into my station services window) open when I undocked?
  2. Can we please not have the UI lose focus on the window I am using during a session change? I would really like to expand on this idea here:

Back In The Day™, one could start typing in a chat window and continue to type during a session change and everything seemed to go fine. Now™ one loses the focus on the active chat window and I have to grab the mouse again, and click back into the text box to continue typing. Annoying Level 9000. Whatever the hell you did, please return it to the Old Way™.

I think that is pretty much it for now. I'm sure there are a few things I forgot, or made a mistake on. Thankfully there is an EDIT button for these forums and I will be allowed to change or redact any errors.


Thank you for your time! Enjoy the chicken nuggets.


Zapphire

P.S. Keep the DISCUSSION positive, even if your OPINION about the topic isn't. If you can't understand the difference, I can't help you.


First off, I would like to approve this thread, it's actually constructive and informative.

So then....

1) Yup agreed
2) Yup agreed
3) Can you elaborate a little on this one with some specific cases? My ships and items hangers and ship cargo all are remembering their locations and states just fine. The ship cargo does seem to close itself between login/off though, but re-opening it for the same ship leave it in the correct position.
4) Again, more examples? All of my inventory windows, both primary and secondary, seem to remember where they are just fine.
5) I'm pretty sure it already does this. (Just checked, never mind, guess not....maybe it did it on SiSi once, I coulda sworn I was able to do this at one point, either way shift click seems to work for me, but your point is valid)
6) Can we have a scenario on how this should work? I've been able to manage with how my corp hanger is now but I haven't had to really use it a lot besides maybe dropping stuff off in a POS. When doing an op with an orca i let the corp hanger sit in my primary inventory window while i keep my secondary current ship cargo window open, same way as I'd use a jet can.

For your other two points, I think there might be a problem with your settings files not saving properly or something. I just checked and found that the option to merge ships and items with station panel works fine between dock and undock.

The other one is a given. I haven't really noticed it much but i think that could be cause cause I've gotten used to it.

The Drake is a Lie
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-12 21:18:34 UTC
Zapphire wrote:
Please move taco bar discussion to this thread.

Thank you,

Zapphire.

Also, no this does not belong in F&I. If you actually take the time to read the posts you'd see the "logic" behind posting it here. I know it's hard with all the food posts here. Slug through them and read a little and you'll figure it out.

If the moderators thought this belonged in a different thread, they'd move it. If you keep talking about taco bars, it will probably stay in GD. Glad to see you all have solid and practical thoughts and can convey them in a manner in accordance with the original post instead of getting distracted by the shiny objects...

Keep to the original discussion, instead of going against your own methods and not sticking to the forum rules. If the rules state this belongs in F&I, then the rules also state you can't discuss topics not outlined in the original post. Can't have it both way, lawyers.


Well played advert for recruitment thread.

James315 for CSM 8!
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-07-12 22:10:19 UTC
go check out the new sisi build

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
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