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yes or no? "the great Speed Nerf had a positive impact on game balance"
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Night Epoch
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-09 17:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Night Epoch
Agree or disagree?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2011-10-09 17:21:49 UTC
Overall, yes.
The scrambler changes screwed over blasters, though.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-09 17:23:38 UTC
You mean the one where I can't put multiple micro-warp drives on my ship anymore ?
OR the one where I can't put an over sized one on anymore.

Wait a minute did those happen at the same time, i forget.

or .... nerf

or..... nerf

or..... nerf


AGREE


EVERYBODY KNOWS
gfldex
#4 - 2011-10-09 17:24:28 UTC
The speed nerf removed options from the game. Less viable fittings, more slowish boredom. I never really used nano fits myself and had a lot of fun making nano*beep*s sad pandas. Nothing better then to see a big snake set in a nicely frozen corpse.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#5 - 2011-10-09 17:29:14 UTC
While I cannot really say much about it's actual impact... I do want my 2km/s dread back... but if I can chose... I would love to have my dual/triple MWD ships back...

/c

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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#6 - 2011-10-09 17:30:32 UTC
This late in the game, if you have to ask then its probably just to find out if you are alone in thinking that it didn't Smile

It opened up for just about ship in game to at least feign viability .. best damn thing CCP ever did, even if unpopular to this day.

@Tipsy (admit it! you like the bottle! Smile): Blasters were harder hit by webs I think as tracking is nowhere near high enough to compensate for the added target velocity. Nothing a round of gun/ammo tweaks wont solve .. only really sad thing is that it has taken so damn long for CCP to sort out.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2011-10-09 17:32:13 UTC
Overall yes, the diversity of fits has increased and there are more viable subcap styles than there used to be.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#8 - 2011-10-09 17:48:24 UTC
It changed the meta-game, and for the better in my opinion. A lot of ships got made more viable because they could one-slot Scrambler instead of having mandatory use of disruptor/web. Bigger Gallente blaster ships got the short end of the stick because their range disadvantage got made even more obvious and bigger, and tracking became a problem. (Although I might add, that during the nano-age blaster ships didn't see that much use anyway since nanoships would just **** them anyway). Not all blaster ships suffered though, the Dual Prop Taranis benefited quite well, so did a variety of other frigates that could now use afterburners instead of MWD. (AB Claw/AB Crusader) as an example.

The thing I miss the most about the nano-age is killing horrible and dumb vagabond pilots in a 1600 plate Vexor.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

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Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-09 17:50:55 UTC
Change is never easy. But as attested by the replies most have adapted and moved on.
In my own opinion it has helped in removing some of the ridiculous setups that were prevalent and that is always a good thing.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#10 - 2011-10-09 17:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Tippia wrote:
Overall, yes.
The scrambler changes screwed over blasters, though.


that and the web change.

overall it was good balance change though

OMG when can i get a pic here
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2011-10-09 18:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
@Tipsy (admit it! you like the bottle! Smile): Blasters were harder hit by webs I think as tracking is nowhere near high enough to compensate for the added target velocity.
…but here's the thing, the web nerf “only” increased the effective tracking requirements by 4× (form 10% max speed to 40% max speed), which was counteracted by the furher speed loss that happened when the MWD was turned off.

However, the scrambler changes in and of themselves increased the tracking requirement by 6× since turning off the MWD to compensate for that speed increase also meant that you lost the tracking bonus that came from having a target with a lit MWD.

Before, when you web/scrammed an MWDing cruiser, it slowed down from 1500m/s to 150m/s, while providing your guns with a 750m sig radius target (alternatively, you slowed it down from 1500m/s to 20m/s or so). Now, when you web/scram the same target with the same equipment, it still slows down from 1500m/s to 150m/s, but you now have to track a target that only has a 125m sig radius… Regardless of whether you compare it to the 150m/s + 750m radius or the 20m/s + 125m radius target, you have a tracking solution that is 6–7 times worse than it was before.

The speed is not the issue because it turns out the same in both cases, so the web nerf isn't all that damaging. What hurts is that the scram deprives you of that juicy sig radius.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#12 - 2011-10-09 18:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hirana Yoshida
Yeah, forgot about the bloom. Perhaps scrambler should be changed to initially kill speed only and letting the bloom remain until cycle ends .. not sure if that's possible to code though.
Suitonia wrote:
..The thing I miss the most about the nano-age is killing horrible and dumb vagabond pilots in a 1600 plate Vexor.

They are still around and still dumb as bricks, only now they fly Cynabal's and Republic Fleet Stabbers ... muhahah
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-09 18:27:41 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
This late in the game, if you have to ask then its probably just to find out if you are alone in thinking that it didn't Smile

It opened up for just about ship in game to at least feign viability .. best damn thing CCP ever did, even if unpopular to this day.

@Tipsy (admit it! you like the bottle! Smile): Blasters were harder hit by webs I think as tracking is nowhere near high enough to compensate for the added target velocity. Nothing a round of gun/ammo tweaks wont solve .. only really sad thing is that it has taken so damn long for CCP to sort out.



Heh you missed the long time whines of **CCP when will lasers get the Oomph?** that lasted around 3 years Lol

Also can't say i complain about the hybrid fix if done right i am a maxed out blaster pilot up to Bs size.. nothing feels better than smite to dust an enemy ship in close range TBH Blink
Rikeka
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2011-10-09 18:31:48 UTC
I miss 8x sinked Geddons too...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DZUXQ.jpg[/IMG]
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-10-09 18:39:45 UTC
Rikeka wrote:
I miss 8x sinked Geddons too...


Or the 10x drones usage of the old Days !!

**Curse the lazy hampsters!!!**Evil
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-09 18:44:32 UTC
gfldex wrote:
The speed nerf removed options from the game. Less viable fittings, more slowish boredom. I never really used nano fits myself and had a lot of fun making nano*beep*s sad pandas....


Pretty much this. It's this reason that I really dislike nerfing in any game. While some are necessary, others are just the result of repeated whine sessions (most of which are countered with solutions to make such OP things obsolete, but are ignored) that become so prevalent that CCP nerfs something cause they are like the parent that relents and buys the kid the box of Sugar Bombs cereal just to shut the annoying brat up. I never got to do the whole speed thing, and I wish i at least had a choice. Now it's moot.

Nerfs are weak.
"If."
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-10-09 18:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowsword
The speed nerf was a good things.

Excessive speed was making a lot of ships useless for pvp, like missile ships.

Besides, can you imagine what the dramiel would have done without it?


Nephilius wrote:
While some are necessary, others are just the result of repeated whine sessions (most of which are countered with solutions to make such OP things obsolete, but are ignored) that become so prevalent that CCP nerfs something cause they are like the parent that relents and buys the kid the box of Sugar Bombs cereal just to shut the annoying brat up. I never got to do the whole speed thing, and I wish i at least had a choice. Now it's moot.

Nerfs are weak.



Can you give even one exemple of something that was nerfed because of whine and not a valid justification?
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-09 18:50:20 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
gfldex wrote:
The speed nerf removed options from the game. Less viable fittings, more slowish boredom. I never really used nano fits myself and had a lot of fun making nano*beep*s sad pandas....


Pretty much this. It's this reason that I really dislike nerfing in any game. While some are necessary, others are just the result of repeated whine sessions (most of which are countered with solutions to make such OP things obsolete, but are ignored) that become so prevalent that CCP nerfs something cause they are like the parent that relents and buys the kid the box of Sugar Bombs cereal just to shut the annoying brat up. I never got to do the whole speed thing, and I wish i at least had a choice. Now it's moot.

Nerfs are weak.


For the same reason some ppl complain about the Drake blob today, back in the day the only option was:

A: fly nano gang
B: bring 3-4x rapiers or GTFO

CCP attempted to balanced the game while still allowing the Nano fits to survive and they did it quite alright, in fact the latest minmatar FOTM with the vagas or machariels and such it's a side effect of that (plus the minnie guns rebalance)
Honorabre Egg Rorr
#19 - 2011-10-09 19:03:01 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
The speed nerf was a good things.

Excessive speed was making a lot of ships useless for pvp, like missile ships.

Besides, can you imagine what the dramiel would have done without it?


Nephilius wrote:
While some are necessary, others are just the result of repeated whine sessions (most of which are countered with solutions to make such OP things obsolete, but are ignored) that become so prevalent that CCP nerfs something cause they are like the parent that relents and buys the kid the box of Sugar Bombs cereal just to shut the annoying brat up. I never got to do the whole speed thing, and I wish i at least had a choice. Now it's moot.

Nerfs are weak.



Can you give even one exemple of something that was nerfed because of whine and not a valid justification?


Coror text font in chat channers.... j/k
Warp to zero... maybe

But usuarry the whine then becomes de facto varid justification upon the nerf. It doesn't take into account that the premise of it was in fact faurty. So it wourd be impossibre to cite any nerf and then say 'there was no reason' because you courd just use the whiner's justification
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-10-09 19:12:05 UTC
Honorabre Egg Rorr wrote:

Coror text font in chat channers.... j/k
Warp to zero... maybe

But usuarry the whine then becomes de facto varid justification upon the nerf. It doesn't take into account that the premise of it was in fact faurty. So it wourd be impossibre to cite any nerf and then say 'there was no reason' because you courd just use the whiner's justification



The WTZ change was done mostly due the massive proliferation of a secondary market of BM copying/sell tru all 0.0 systems, that literally was eating a lot of server resources.

Not saying too much whine never affected some changes since there have been quite a lot of them (Vampi Dominix, ECM I-Win, WCS + Snipping fits) but in the overall most of them make sense and feel right from a gameplay perspective.


P.S: Btw i did notice Honorabe Egg Rorr seems to type r instead of L some odd keyboard or something to amuse yourself? Lol
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