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Grats CCP, No armsrace will every be possible vs current tech holders
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Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#441 - 2012-07-11 19:17:34 UTC
Xython wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


What's that? Why yes, we are better at EVE than you, thank you for noticing. :)


Having friends in this social game owns, doesn't it? I think a lot of the posters in this thread could use some friends, because clearly they haven't got any.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2012-07-11 19:42:36 UTC
Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Xython wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


What's that? Why yes, we are better at EVE than you, thank you for noticing. :)


Having friends in this social game owns, doesn't it? I think a lot of the posters in this thread could use some friends, because clearly they haven't got any.


I'm torn. I love to solo rat, and solo **** in other MMOs. So I "get" the whole "**** friends" thing. At the same time, you can't beat having 7000 friends at your back if **** hits the fan.

I just wish EVE had group PVE content. Don't bother saying "Incursions" -- they were destroyed in that patch and are worthless.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#443 - 2012-07-11 19:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Xython wrote:

I just wish EVE had group PVE content. Don't bother saying "Incursions" -- they were destroyed in that patch and are worthless.


c5 & c6 + cap escalations are an absolute isk farm if you do them right, and the PvP is free if it's in someone elses wormhole.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2012-07-11 20:00:59 UTC
Ping Pang Pong wrote:
You guys have been bathing in moon goo for what, 3 years now? Pulling in something like 15 billion a month per moon over three years means your coffers are good and padded.

Given the fact we dissolved barely over 2 years ago, and TCF dissolved less than 1.5 years ago, I'm going to go with "you're wrong".

Ping Pang Pong wrote:
The Goons were given half of their tech moons by an alliance that moved out of the system/dissolved. The remainder of the moons were taken after CCP decided to nerf tracking on super caps out of the blue, and goons blobbed everything with sub-caps.

I would say that falls in the line of the Goons being given just about everything they have.

We took most of our tech before titan tracking was tweaked. So again, I'm going to go with "you're wrong".

Hope that helps.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2012-07-11 20:08:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Xython wrote:

I just wish EVE had group PVE content. Don't bother saying "Incursions" -- they were destroyed in that patch and are worthless.


c5 & c6 + cap escalations are an absolute isk farm if you do them right, and the PvP is free if it's in someone elses wormhole.


Ya know, that's one thing I never have gotten into at all -- Wormhole stuff. Might be fun to look into it.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#446 - 2012-07-11 20:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Garreth Vlox
MotherMoon wrote:
Only question i have is why cant a stage an attack on undefended moons to raid them of goo. Does it magically transport the huge distance between moon and pos? If small gangs could blow up the ships transporting the goo to the safe pos, gangs of 5-10 players could make an impact raiding supply lines.

Small defense fleets would form to catch them.

Small gang warfare could come back to null sec.

Also if your an allaince with so many systems that 70% of them are empty most of the time, you deserve to have your passive income stolen by brave pilots. It would promote smaller sov space. Come on its perfect !



I've marked the important part, if you think that is how it would work you have never been in null sec. You **** with a moon that makes an alliance as much isk a month as a tech moon does and you will get blobbed. No self respecting alliance is going to tolerate you poking their money supply line.

ALSO:

This is just another way to try and circumvent actually taking the moon, here's a thought, how about instead of trying to scheme CCP on the forums into adding a game mechanic that allows you to attack a POS without actually attacking, you just go find some people fleet up and shoot the ******* thing. And as far as the you're a big alliance and you leave systems empty so I should be allowed to steal from you, try that in real life and see how long it takes some one to try and shoot you for stealing **** out of their back yard.

The LULZ Boat.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#447 - 2012-07-11 20:17:56 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Ping Pang Pong wrote:
You guys have been bathing in moon goo for what, 3 years now? Pulling in something like 15 billion a month per moon over three years means your coffers are good and padded.

Given the fact we dissolved barely over 2 years ago, and TCF dissolved less than 1.5 years ago, I'm going to go with "you're wrong".

Ping Pang Pong wrote:
The Goons were given half of their tech moons by an alliance that moved out of the system/dissolved. The remainder of the moons were taken after CCP decided to nerf tracking on super caps out of the blue, and goons blobbed everything with sub-caps.

I would say that falls in the line of the Goons being given just about everything they have.

We took most of our tech before titan tracking was tweaked. So again, I'm going to go with "you're wrong".

Hope that helps.

Besides all the tech money goes back out as reimbursements, so the people that get blown up are who benefit.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#448 - 2012-07-11 20:35:22 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


you say that as if all of the tech moons in the game were specifically given to the goons by some benevolent higher being.


You act as if Goons had any risk when they took the moons, they zerg and scammed their way to the tech moons. They have numbers and numbers win in EvE.


How does one scam someone out of a tech moon? I don't think even we've managed that.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#449 - 2012-07-11 20:37:00 UTC
Xython wrote:

Ya know, that's one thing I never have gotten into at all -- Wormhole stuff. Might be fun to look into it.


3 things to remember, wormholes are like gates with mass limits and a lifetime either of which will close it, always have probe launchers fitted to at least 50% of your fleet and bookmarks, bookmark everything especially your exit.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#450 - 2012-07-11 20:38:51 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


you say that as if all of the tech moons in the game were specifically given to the goons by some benevolent higher being.


You act as if Goons had any risk when they took the moons, they zerg and scammed their way to the tech moons. They have numbers and numbers win in EvE.


How does one scam someone out of a tech moon? I don't think even we've managed that.

Nope.

Apparently we have !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#451 - 2012-07-11 20:38:56 UTC
Ping Pang Pong wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

If only CCP would hurry up and fix tech so we could place bets on what people like you would whine about next.



Fixing tech won't do anything to immediately effect the way things are. You guys have been bathing in moon goo for what, 3 years now? Pulling in something like 15 billion a month per moon over three years means your coffers are good and padded.



Twulf wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


you say that as if all of the tech moons in the game were specifically given to the goons by some benevolent higher being.


You act as if Goons had any risk when they took the moons, they zerg and scammed their way to the tech moons. They have numbers and numbers win in EvE.



The Goons were given half of their tech moons by an alliance that moved out of the system/dissolved. The remainder of the moons were taken after CCP decided to nerf tracking on super caps out of the blue, and goons blobbed everything with sub-caps.

I would say that falls in the line of the Goons being given just about everything they have.


Again what about fade, pure blind, fountain, cloud ring, branch, tenal and now delve? Who gave us those?
Max50
an Renegade
#452 - 2012-07-11 20:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Max50
Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Max50 wrote:
I think people are missing the point when it comes to think of changes from CCP.

CCP will make changes to keep the game running,this doesnt mean that it will actually make the game better for all players.


Anyone remembers the days of NC?How loved they were together...brofist etc?The one day supers got boosted and suddenly the ruskies that had lots of them pull the numbers in subcaps and ofc outnumbered NC's supercaps.NC fell,propably because of the combination of doing over and over the same thing(defending long boring gaming hours etc over and over) and because a few game changes gave the edge to someone else.
Time passes and the game gets static again.Goons try...whatever they try but they get stomped over and over in a boring wall of supercarriers,virtually invicible if you didnt had more supercaps.Then the first supercap rebalancing(nerf for onwers like me,fair balancing for the rest) but again that wasnt enough since the blap titans appeared.
Blap titans made it possible for a single alliance like raiden to defend succesfully against a coalition of alliances.The game became static again since CFC couldnt stand getting blapped on a daily and boring basis so a next new thing should come to change this.So now we have the new "rebalanced" titans.

Although i participated in opposite side of goons,i cannot say that the game isnt changed for good.


Players have 3-4 options:

1)either join the "winning side"

2)start crying more than goons did about everything
3)get organised

4)adapt.


Crying about it isnt an option.Like any mmorpg,EVE has to give the players the carrot to keep the rabbits running behind it.Thats how this game works.CCP chose tech to keep a big part of its memberbase running behind something they think is important.
But the fact is that it isnt important if you dont let it be.Adapt or die i guess.

I use to make ISK by doing lvl4 missions in empire and later ratting plexing in -1.0 systems.I thought that i knew my **** untill i tried lvl5 missions.Doing them propably not only gives more ISK,it gives you a ISK you dont know what to do so you just stop farming.I am not doing wallet show off here,since i am certain some other guy will tell me that he is better than me and makes even more by ...lets say trading.
Always adapt,always look for some new for ISK making,for manufacturing or for PVPing.Its what makes the game interesting.


CFC will die in the future,just like BOB died,just like the ruskie coalition died,just like NC died after so many wars etc etc.

Death of powerblocks is what keeps this game ticking.The problem is what you or me g


The CFC may die like BoB did, maybe, at some far point in the future. But so far Goonswarm has been destroyed a few times and each time we come back far stronger than before.

Edit: Blap titans were almost as game breaking as remote Doomsdays. Perhaps moreso.


Its not a question of "if" but a question of "when".I am not roleplaying the usual anti-CFC here but its just the normal circle of power as demonstrated all these years in EVE.The reasons can be many but irrelevant to the stance a player or a group of players should keep.
Adaptation is the only solution when game mechanics dont favour what a player does.Crying doesnt help.

So the problem with the CFC tech now isnt that they control almost all of it because they were flying maels+drakes+canes+support for these before they get any tech moon and they still fly the same ships.Yes they might build supers now but they already had supers before the tech.
If someone wants to actually beat CFC he needs to overcome some simple difficulties that have nothing to do with "unfair" gameplay.They first need to find 1500 actual players,half in EU tz and half in US tz,then they need to motivate them to form up a blob in a daily basis and go out for a huge grind.
As much "cool" as it seems for new players to actually do the grind,if you ask me or thousand other players to go grind a POS i will simply log off,because i am bored and because i have adapted so i dont need to grind anything.

In that sense exactly,i dont agree with the opinion that says RDN lost before the titan nerf.1 alliance,practically less than 200 players held the field numerous times using the most expensive ships in game(tengus,abbadons,supercarriers and titans) as long as they believed it fit them.Once another change was on the way they simply decided to adapt.

P.S 1:blap titans were "game breaking" for the CFC side,but "blob balancing" from the other side.I thought we left roleplaying for CAOD.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#453 - 2012-07-11 21:07:04 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Again what about fade, pure blind, fountain, cloud ring, branch, tenal and now delve? Who gave us those?

-A- didn't want their friends to have those regions, they gave them to us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#454 - 2012-07-11 21:14:49 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Your flawed argument is like calling the owner of a small grocery store stupid for not being more competitive and letting Walmart put him out of business.


Tesco is something like the world's third biggest retailer. It started as a single stall in a market. Care to throw another bad analogy out?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#455 - 2012-07-11 21:25:44 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Your flawed argument is like calling the owner of a small grocery store stupid for not being more competitive and letting Walmart put him out of business.


Tesco is something like the world's third biggest retailer. It started as a single stall in a market. Care to throw another bad analogy out?

It's like rifters attacking a cyno ship when remote doomsdays existed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2012-07-11 21:29:03 UTC
Max50 wrote:
Its not a question of "if" but a question of "when".I am not roleplaying the usual anti-CFC here but its just the normal circle of power as demonstrated all these years in EVE.

This can't be emphasized enough, this will happen. Question is just when, and how spectacularly.

I'm hoping very. I mean, we have to top the SOV welp of early 2010.

Max50 wrote:
In that sense exactly,i dont agree with the opinion that says RDN lost before the titan nerf.1 alliance,practically less than 200 players held the field numerous times using the most expensive ships in game(tengus,abbadons,supercarriers and titans) as long as they believed it fit them.Once another change was on the way they simply decided to adapt.

I'm not 100% certain of all the details, mainly because I wasn't as involved in this war as I would've liked, but I thought we were mostly going "we're not invading" while rzr kept SBUing etc tenal, until we finally said "ok, that's enough, we're taking tenal", at which point RDN just slinked away.

Prior to that, RDN, NCdot and Ev0ke had been working together (with a smattering of PL whenever there was a chance of a super kill) to fairly good effect, but they were getting pretty close to matching our numbers, and then they had supers on the field in addition.

Max50 wrote:
P.S 1:blap titans were "game breaking" for the CFC side,but "blob balancing" from the other side.I thought we left roleplaying for CAOD.

Yes and no. At that point they were used to do "blob balancing", but that only works as long as only one side uses supers. The instant both sides start using them is the instant one (or both) sides start losing a lot of them, and if one side loses more than the other chances are their morale breaks, and this is the more game breaking aspect of supers (it still is, even after rebalancing). There are tons of counters to them, but the main problem is their effect on morale, both when just one side uses them, and when one side loses a lot of them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#457 - 2012-07-11 21:34:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
I'm not 100% certain of all the details, mainly because I wasn't as involved in this war as I would've liked, but I thought we were mostly going "we're not invading" while rzr kept SBUing etc tenal, until we finally said "ok, that's enough, we're taking tenal", at which point RDN just slinked away.

The cap fleets were shooting their structures for a while before. Two weeks to a month, and RZR was tiring of repping all their structures.
Lord Zim wrote:
Yes and no. At that point they were used to do "blob balancing", but that only works as long as only one side uses supers. The instant both sides start using them is the instant one (or both) sides start losing a lot of them, and if one side loses more than the other chances are their morale breaks, and this is the more game breaking aspect of supers (it still is, even after rebalancing). There are tons of counters to them, but the main problem is their effect on morale, both when just one side uses them, and when one side loses a lot of them.

Yep, and now we have blap titans helping to camp 310. Damn wierd.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
#458 - 2012-07-11 22:19:41 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Twulf wrote:
Lol now I have seen it all. A Goon talking about risk/reward as if they have any idea what that means when they can zerk non stop and never run out of ISK because of tech moons.


you say that as if all of the tech moons in the game were specifically given to the goons by some benevolent higher being.


You act as if Goons had any risk when they took the moons, they zerg and scammed their way to the tech moons. They have numbers and numbers win in EvE.


How does one scam someone out of a tech moon? I don't think even we've managed that.


Did you guys not scam you way to beating BOB or do I have wrong information?

Personally I don't really care. GOONs have earned everything they have.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-07-11 22:25:42 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Did you guys not scam you way to beating BOB or do I have wrong information?

There was no scam involved, one director just went **** BoB, just like our CEO went **** goons a year later.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vinni Starseeker
MMMMMA
#460 - 2012-07-12 03:58:43 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:


Your flawed argument is like calling the owner of a small grocery store stupid for not being more competitive and letting Walmart put him out of business.


What you're saying here is that the US government (CCP) should shut down Walmart (GSF/CFC/OTEC) for being too big. Yeah thats not going to happen either. It will never change because there's no rule stopping anyone from becoming Walmart.

GSF used to be the small grocery store and BOB was Walmart and what did the GSF do? We took over the galaxy and crushed BOB and its 3(so far) reiterations. If you can't do that then yes, it's no ones fault but your own.



Learn your history For the analogy use AT&T rather than Walmart. AT&T was split up by the U.S. Government for running a monopoly. If corporations get so big in EVE that they significantly reduce the game play experiance then CCP is within their right to change the rules.