Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well for one, this would destroy the character market, people would simply train alts and sell them continously..

Eve also differs from just about any other mmo in the way that skills impact gameplay, there is no leveling system and a new character can perform as well as an old one in many roles.

I am not saying that i wouldn't like to be able to train another character on my account, but i think it'll do more harm than good considering how eve works.

This is where things get foggy... what harm would it do to the game itself? Honestly I'm not terribly concerned about the character trading market if it impacts gameplay. Worst case they could cap the number of toons you could sell per year or something, problem solved.

affects gameplay in which way? you already have the option to train as many characters as you wish. the two other character slots are there for convenience of other things.

what you seem to be asking for is the ability to have three characters for the price of one.

This is a perfect approach to this (sorry if i'm just repeating you now mxz).

Being able to train 3 characters at the same time, on the same account in eve would be the same as being able to create 3 characters in wow, and have 2 of them get xp equal to whatever the one you're playing gets.

It's not a perfect analogy, just somewhat close. You're still not getting the core difference between SP and XP. SP rewards patience. The whole point of SP is that it doesn't matter if one guy goes on a 72h Eve binge and you can only log on for a couple hours after work, you still train the same SP/hour.

And there's still the point that in WoW, you can still only grind one char at a time. It doesn't matter if you're grinding to max level in a day or taking three years to do it, you can only grind one char at a time. The same holds true for training chars on an account in Eve, you can only work on one at a time.

I do.

only because ever few months i get bored of what i am doing and do something else. lived in npc null, lived in sov null, fought in carriers, fought in stealth bombers, been in battleship fleets, ran l4 missions, mined, done ice, done a lot of scanning, ran the maze a few times, hacking, arch , cosmos, been pos manager, run reaction chains, done PI, been in hisec wars, been in lowsec wars, gatecamped, run logistics, spyed, ganked noobs, can flipped, jetcan mined myself,

and still some days i go mining in a quiet system while i watch a movie or something. netflix is a wonderful thing.

edit -
while i do have multiple accounts, it means that i am often doing several things at once, gatecamping with a l4 running, scanning null while mining, but my main is skilled in all things so i change it up quite often.

yes but im not sure how thats relevant. I can unlock every gun in COD in a day or two, what real relation does that have to EVE skill training though?

Because of the difference in how one attains skills, the comparison falls apart.

I just want to be sure that i know what it is you are asking for,
- the ability to train all three characters on one account at the same time (with no penality) for the price of the one account.

is that correct?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. You make it sound like that's an absurdly greedy notion, when in fact playing multiple characters is what keeps MMOs healthy. In case you're wondering why Eve has 400,000 subscribers 10 years in, these are the kinds of things that affect that number significantly.



I'm not suggesting speeding up a character's training, I'm suggesting that many players naturally want to explore deeply into multiple skill branches, which is impossible to do with one character outside of spending multiple years. Giving players full access to their 3 characters to explore the game fully is completely reasonable IMO, and in fact I'd suggest not allowing that has to have a negative impact on the game's playerbase numbers.

You're telling people "You chose your path last year, if you wanna change your mind I'll see you next year", and I imagine many of them are then telling you "Screw it then, I'm bored. Bye!". Having several different characters running in parallel doing different things well is vital for many players. And they shouldn't be forced to pay for multiple accounts to do that.

Right, except most serious MMO players I know aren't satisfied with just being "ok" at something, they are typically completionists who want to excel in a given role. Wanting to have two advanced characters, one focused on being a capital ship pilot and another being a master researcher shouldn't be a ridiculous notion, it should be encouraged.

As is, that's only possible with multiple accounts... and from the sounds of it there are a LOT of folks with multiple accounts doing just that. Considering the vast numbers of serious players who can't afford a second account, imagine how many folks are being left out, and probably moving on.

OP... as it is, the current skill system is quite elegant and does a number of things that actually helps players in EVE over the long haul.

1. It keeps people from power leveling and forces people to use "crappy stuff" for awhile.
Granted, this seems like a bad thing, but it actually isn't. Given the nature of EVE, that all losses are permanent and hurt your wallet, forcing young players to use "cheap and crappy" stuff for a small while is a good idea. Why? Because who is more likely to quit? A newbie on a fresh account who just lost a T1 frigate or a newbie on a bought vet account in a gigantic "bling" ship?
The skill system effective forces a new player to use cheaper stuff with limited functions so you get a feel for the game overall and can use the more advanced (and expensive) ships and equipment without learning tactics the "hard way."
Besides... everyone underestimates the value and power of a crappy T1 ship. When used properly and the correct tactics, they can ruin any veteran's day**.

2. The current skill system rewards veteran and newbie players alike.
Many new players complain that since the training time for skills is pretty much "hands off" and there is nothing they can directly do to accelerate SP gain, they will always be at a perpetual disadvantage. This is a outright lie.
For starters, only a certain number of skills apply to any one ship/module/rig at any given time. For instance, training up the skill Large Hybrid Turret will in no way affect any skills or modules relating to Small Hybrid Turrets. The skill Minmitar Cruiser will in no way affect Minmitar frigates. etc.
The other advantage newbies have is that all skills stop at level 5. You cannot exceed this limit in any one skill no matter how long you have played. Which means that once a newbie has level 5 he/she is at the level of a veteran in that skill.
More than that, level 5 is not necessarily "required" for certain specialties. Because of EVE's philosophy of "diminishing returns" you will find that it makes much more sense to get a whole bunch of skills in a certain profession all to level 4 before even considering training said skills to level 5 (because of the very high time sink required to get certain skills to level 5). And even then, it might still not be worth it (there are quite a few veterans, myself included, who have not trained many specialty skills beyond level 4).

The only real, solid advantage that veterans have over newbies is the fact that they can more "versatility" than younger players (i.e. they can go between combat and industry, or switch between different types and classes of ships).

3. The current system rewards specialization and teamwork rather than jack-of-all-trades and solo.
To each his own, but this is an MMO and CCP decided to promote teamwork more than anything else. If you can do something well (specialize), you can choose to join other people who also do the same thing well and be that much better at it... or you can join a group of people and fill in a niche that they are weak in, making you invaluable.
If you are a "real man" and dislike the company of others... yes, you must train more skills in more specialties and live with the fact that, for awhile at least, you'll only be half as effective competing against someone who focused specifically in one area... but once you have those skills you'll find yourself that much more self-sufficient.
In other words... specialize and work with others... or skill in everything and live with limited effectiveness for awhile. On principle, you can't have both (because why would you team up with another player if you could?)


** Newbies in crappy T1 ships are not at an "extreme" disadvantage. Mind you, this is not to say one can take such a ship with limited skills and win a 1v1 brawl with a vet... but what a newbie can do is distract and/or wreak havoc with the vet's ability to either escape or be as effective as he/she could be.
For instance... a veteran is flying a big burly battlecruier. A newbie is in his/her T1 frigate. On paper, the newbie doesn't stand a chance against the veteran. What the newbie does have that the veteran doesn't is backup. Using the inherrently superior targeting speed of the frigate the newbie can "lock down" the veteran long enough so that his/her backup can also get target locks and lay down some pain. And if the veteran battlecruiser brings in more of his/her friends in other battlecruisers, the newbie in the smaller, more agile frigate can make a quick getaway (because battlecruisers cannot match the frigate in terms of speed).

What does this have to do with your idea? Well...

1. As said before, keeping younger players throttled in "cheap ships"might frustrate them a bit... but personally, that's a better option than them dying in droves in expensive ships they barely know how to use and then rage quitting and/or asking for the whole system to be altered to prevent their dying.

2. Your idea promotes the idea that people have to "wait" in order to do anything. You don't. That isn't what the skill system was designed to do. It was designed to put skills into the background so you can concentrate on actually playing the game and using the ships and equipment you have available to your advantage.

3. Your idea discourages players from banding together. Why should you ever rely on another player you don't know for a skill/specialty that you can train on an alt? This is an MMO. Teamwork should be promoted on principle.