Ships & Modules

Do you actually know how the tracking formula works? Hit quality and chance to hit (range issues aside) are determined by TRACKING, and ONLY TRACKING. A frigate sitting still will take full damage from a 1400mm, or even a dreadnought, despite being so much smaller than the guns. What sig radius does is it affects tracking, thereby indirectly affecting the other things, a ship with twice the sig radius is twice as easy to track and so on.

That's why sig radius is less important than speed; with higher speed you get all the advantages of a lower sig, AND you can dictate the terms of the engagement, which in the end has a much bigger overall effect on reducing incoming damage.



Given how many times you've literally just quoted a point that you made like 20 posts ago, the irony is killing me.



Carry on.[/quote]

Source: Evelopedia http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

Once again proven wrong. Please don't quit while you are behind, sad, proven wrong and broken. This can only get better from here.

From literally the same page that you linked:


Have a nice day :)

EDIT:
And until you explain WHY removing ship based penalties is in any way more elegant, rather that what I would call it (making everything the same for the sake of not having to put effort into balancing things) repeating yourself doesn't make what you're saying true.

Honestly that last reply was just a half-assed copy/paste because you were grasping at straws so thin you'd need a magnifying glass to see them (not to mention how far off topic we've gone, but this thread was shite anyway so whatever).

So looking at it it does actually look like I was backpedaling, which was not my intention, so I'll take the time to actually address the post properly:

First off, let's define tracking, because I think this is where you went wrong:

When we talk about actual gameplay, tracking (and talking about people not being able to track you, out-tracking someone etc) is a term that refers to how fast your ship has to go in a circle around another ship before the other ship starts hitting you less/not hitting you at all. If you're going too fast to get hit, the ship you're fighting can't TRACK you, and if you are getting hit, it can.

You can of course argue this point with me until you're blue in the face, but I think everything I need to prove you wrong is here:

In your own post, you called it the TRACKING formula. Which is, in essence, what it is. It's the formula that you use to figure out if you've got enough tracking to hit the guy you're shooting.

So, with that in mind, would you not agree that your chance to hit, as well as your hit quality, are determined by the "tracking formula" (your words not mine) and that this means that it is in fact tracking that gets used to determine these things, with signature radius having an effect, but only indirectly (as one of the things considered when calculating the tracking formula is signature radius)

Alternately you could try a more hands on, practical proof:
Grab some ships with really small radii, get a ship with guns with a very large sig res, sit both ships perfectly still (remember we're trying to see if sig radius does anything without the help of tracking, so no tracking can be added to this) and keep shooting until you miss a shot. I think you'll find that you will not only never miss, you'll never get a barely scratches, because once transversal = 0, the chanceToHit becomes 0.5^0, which = 1, which means the shot will always be a hit.

It's also worth noting (and I actually didn't know this until I read that link more carefully) that the hit quality not only isn;t affected by signature radius, it's not actually affected by tracking, as tracking only limits the max hit quality you can get while still hitting. Basically if you roll a well aimed shot, the game then checks your tracking, and if you're tracking well the well aimed shot is a hit, and if you're tracking poorly then your well aimed shot was aiming into space for some reason :D

jesus **** boys just use faction ammo like everyone else and stop crying if you ever find yourself thinking god damn i sure could use some javelin thats when you hit approach and overload that mwd with faction loaded.

What? It uses them just fine if you fit a painter. Torpedoes are why it's so awesome after all. Shortrange yes, but it is a good shortrange BS. It does great DPS to any BS or BC.

Rage torps are only situationally useful, even with painter, though.

Indeed.

To be fair it was pretty much all T2 ammo sans scortch and barrage till recently.

Torps are fine, just that the phoon isn't very good with them (even though it totally is). When you say "ships designed to use them" you're undoubtedly referring to the raven hulls and the stealth bombers, and I'm guessing that the ships that aren't "designed" to use them are the phoon and the...RF phoon? That sounds like a problem with those ships rather than the weapons in question, assuming there is in fact a problem (there isn't).

It's probably also worth noting that the drawbacks aren't that big a deal with the phoon anyway, you're in a BS so your sig radius is already huge, and while a phoon loading jav torps will, for example, be slower than a megathron (800m/s vs 900 with a MWD running, assuming 2 plates and 3 trimarks) it's also faster than the mega with anything else loaded (990 vs 900) and I don't see mega pilots complaining about it.

And I go out of my way to ensure my stealth bombers have t2 launchers because of how useful t2 torps have proven to be on roams.

The penalties are there so you don't stick with one cookie-cutter ammo. Missiles are fine - well, Fury are, Precisions are usually replaced by T1 or faction ammo instead.



Tbh, the only raven hull "designed for torpedoes" is the marauder, Golem. Using them on CNR is a big no-no, while a normal raven with torps is passable, but usually only used in pvp.

Fixed that for you.

I've only ever seen Ravens outside hisec for POS bashes.