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Unable to Decide: Proteus or Legion
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-07-10 11:38:00 UTC
Lol forget Kronos for pve, you need to pimp sensor if you don't want to get ECM'd at each fly farts on your neighbourhood.

Since you aim for a budget around 1B go Vindi.

*monster blaster dps

*web bonus

*excellent drone bay offering many options (let your sentry kill sniper bs and take care of everything at 30 and under FTL)

*agile, good sensor strength nice slot layout

-cons: the more love you put in the better it becomes, you can increase your max blaster distance with 1 faction TE and still fit 1 Faction MFS but depends of your play style.
I actually tend to tank with gank so I just use 2 ded EANP 1DCU 1LAR and 3 dmg mods +rigs, whatever is dead can't hurt you.
However you need to choose when to drop your sentry and get back to get them and some times you might loose some.
I don't like the rails vindi, but it's a personal point of view.

brb
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2012-07-10 11:59:40 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


You know an Ishtar is better than that Proteus you pretend is awesome right?
I will never understand those dudes liking AFK game play telling drone boats are awesome...jesus, that's hella boring and tedious with drones not responding correctly (drones bug and it's not new right?), have an awful travel time and you have to switch in between lights for small stuff then larger for larger stuff. Your overall dps is horrible.


I fly both and they are different, Ishtar isn't simply better. It's a stellar sentry boat that does deadly dps against rats at a long range. I use blasters on it as supplemental dps, and it's certainly not afk. Sentries need to be told what to shoot.

Proteus is a heavy drone boat, with superior active armor tank and scanning ability (expanded launcher + bonus).

It's also the only ship that is not totally gimped with an interdiction nullifier:

[Proteus, Explorer 1rep nulli]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Codebreaker II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe
Improved Cloaking Device II
Salvager II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier


Warrior SW-300 x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5
Ogre II x4
Hammerhead II x5


930 hp/s vs Serpentis
152dps Null + 527dps Ogre IIs (peak o/h w. Void 772dps)


.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#23 - 2012-07-10 12:07:57 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

You know an Ishtar is better than that Proteus you pretend is awesome right?
I will never understand those dudes liking AFK game play telling drone boats are awesome...jesus, that's hella boring and tedious with drones not responding correctly (drones bug and it's not new right?), have an awful travel time and you have to switch in between lights for small stuff then larger for larger stuff. Your overall dps is horrible.


And once again you speak about something you have no idea about.
I'm still waiting for your response in this thread : Lin-Young Borovskova does not know what he/she is talking about thread
where you failed miserably, revealed that you really have no idea about certain things, that you are incapable of reading ship stats and when I pointed this out......you ran away.

Also you have no idea about low/null exploration where those ships are being used. You are only doing missions so you should stick to that. Less fails that way.
Even more - you have no idea why Proteus is better than Ishtar for those tasks and I don't care enough to explain that ( not that you have the capacity to actually understand all this ).
You also don't know that drone boats are even better than Tengus in some scenarios ( as far as exploration is concerned ) but I won't be explaining why - for the reasons above.

And AFKing?
In the context I'm saying those ships are used?
Really?

You must be the stupidest poster I have seen in a while.

Also - I'm fine and my drones are working nicely. No bugs here. Sure they could do better UI and some minor control buffs here and there but nothing major.

Have a nice dayCool
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-07-10 12:30:41 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

You know an Ishtar is better than that Proteus you pretend is awesome right?
I will never understand those dudes liking AFK game play telling drone boats are awesome...jesus, that's hella boring and tedious with drones not responding correctly (drones bug and it's not new right?), have an awful travel time and you have to switch in between lights for small stuff then larger for larger stuff. Your overall dps is horrible.


And once again you speak about something you have no idea about.
I'm still waiting for your response in this thread : Lin-Young Borovskova does not know what he/she is talking about thread
where you failed miserably, revealed that you really have no idea about certain things, that you are incapable of reading ship stats and when I pointed this out......you ran away.

Also you have no idea about low/null exploration where those ships are being used. You are only doing missions so you should stick to that. Less fails that way.
Even more - you have no idea why Proteus is better than Ishtar for those tasks and I don't care enough to explain that ( not that you have the capacity to actually understand all this ).
You also don't know that drone boats are even better than Tengus in some scenarios ( as far as exploration is concerned ) but I won't be explaining why - for the reasons above.

And AFKing?
In the context I'm saying those ships are used?
Really?

You must be the stupidest poster I have seen in a while.

Also - I'm fine and my drones are working nicely. No bugs here. Sure they could do better UI and some minor control buffs here and there but nothing major.

Have a nice dayCool



Your capacity to accept you might be wrong is a little bit under 0 but it's ok, that's what makes you so special Lol

You can use as much counter arguments as you wish and believe you're right over something pretty obvious and simple:

Drone boats are not bad but you can do exactly the same thing much better with some other setups. The point is about cleaning lvl4's and anoms, I'm telling you of all available choices you're doing the worst and expecting you to tell me you can clean sanctums in 10 to 20min with your uber drone Proteus...every one using Proteus (like I do) will be laughing at you.

Then you come up with exploration and serpentis rats and failthread where once again you missed the point about omnitanking and specific hardening, it's ok, I'm not English native but such an experienced dude like you that can't figure it out after so much experience it's quite sad.
So exploration Proteus owns, ok, and how relevant to lvl4's/sanctums this is? -it isn't.

Then you are defending the uberness of drone Proteus vs Ishtar, welp again you're wrong, if something is quite well known about Proteus fail points is the command and drone sub.
If you can do better in lvl4's and sanctums with your uber drone Proteus than you do with an Ishtar you fail at using your Ishtar, that simple.

You like the drone Prot? -nice for you dude but I can't stop thinking you're an idiot doing it that way, doesn't means I'm trying to convince you because I feel no need for that, after all it's your game and you play it the way you like, do lvl4's with an officer fitted rifter if you like but in the end I still think you're wrong and how awful you are at doing what you do.

brb
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#25 - 2012-07-10 13:24:36 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

shiptoast


Uhm....where in my posts did I actually say that this is used for anything but exploration ( no, anoms are not considered exploration ) ?
Oh that's right - I never said that. I even said :
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
The only missions I did were tutorials and SOE epic arc so can't really help you with that.

That simple fact invalidates your whole post here. You need to try harder next time.

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

if something is quite well known about Proteus fail points is the command and drone sub.


And here again - repeating the same old b/s people been telling BEFORE Inferno ( when it was actually valid ). Guess what - it's not valid any more.

Also - I don't need to accept that I'm wrong because unlike you I actually speak only about things I have experience with. I talk about ships/mods after testing them in game in different situations/sites and evaluating their usage/performance and because I fly almost exclusively those ships currently ( Ishtar + Proteus + Tengu ), I have a very good idea about how those ships are actually performing in situations I'm talking about.

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

Then you come up with exploration and serpentis rats and failthread where once again you missed the point about omnitanking and specific hardening, it's ok, I'm not English native but such an experienced dude like you that can't figure it out after so much experience it's quite sad.


Lol You think that it will be that easy to cover your epic fail in that thread?


Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

I'm still waiting for your response in this thread : Lin-Young Borovskova does not know what he/she is talking about thread
where you failed miserably, revealed that you really have no idea about certain things, that you are incapable of reading ship stats and when I pointed this out......you ran away.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-07-10 14:25:39 UTC
I have been using a Blaster Proteus in missions for some time. All strategic cruisers work best against thee native enemies.

In Gallente sapce would classify missions into four different groups.

Angels - Proteus can load up on EXP hardeners and tank this but it is not efficient I have a backup Sleip I use for Angel missions.

Amarr/Sansha - Drone Proteus is effective here, load up on thermal drones and more space for tank. Less affected by neuting (stay at range) and tracking disruption.

Mercenaries - Majority Kin therm but watch for extra damage types. Beware Spider drones.

Serps/Guristas/EOM/Mordus/Caldari - Proteus excels in Kin Therm missions. I have been experimenting with a Drone version but will probably revert back to Blasters for these missions.

My fit is below, I keep changing the rigs but the latest version is generic and allows a swap to a drone version. Bear in mind I have max skills and 5%hardwirings, I would also recommend the Imperial Navy Modfied Noble Implant.

Use NULL to pick of Frigates at 30+km

I hardly use the cap booster, I swap it out for ECCM, Web, Tracking comp as required (swap a tracking enhancer for another tank mod)

I would put this up against any tengu for serpentis missions.

[Proteus, Null Boosting Proteus]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane

Corelum C-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-07-10 14:40:37 UTC
Lin I am not going to try and pick out isolated quotes, but I will bring up the following points.

First off, the OP asked about PVE. Which can encompass many possible activities. The OP also mentioned 0.0, where exploration is probably a bigger option than mission running in many cases.

In terms of 0.0 exploration I personally prefer drone boats. Yes the Tengu rocks (I have many), but in cases where ammo is an issue the drone ships simply dont use any ammo. Of course neither does the legion, but it is far more limited where it can be effective due to resists and damage type.

When it comes to drone boats, the Ishtar is great. I love my Ishtars. But the drone proteus is no slouch either. The key has been the new drone damage amp. The proteus has the slot layout and PG/CPU to take advantage of this module while at the same time maintaining a great tank and DPS.

As an example, I have an Ishtar I use for ninja exploring in 0.0. Very similar to the one used in the Ninja thread in missions and complexes. I also have a drone Proteus that I use for the same task. Setup against serpentis:

The Proteus puts out slightly more DPS than the Ishtar. This is largely due to the fact that I can still fit Heavy neutron blasters. It makes quick work of anything that gets too close, which lets me leave the sentry drones out to clear the rest.

It has a 30% higher tank than the Ishtar

It is fit with the scanning sub, which means 50% higher scan strength. Not something to scoff at when scanning in 0.0

It is fit with the interdiction nullifier sub, which means travelling un-scouted through 0.0 is much easier and safer. All of the stats above are with this fit, so it isn't just a travel fit that I swap to do combat.

The downsides over the Ishtar?

Price. The Proteus is about double that of the Ishtar. But still we are talking 387mil vs 800mil

Drone bay. The Proteus drone bay is way smaller, so I cannot bring as much variety in drones.
Aiko Kurushio
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#28 - 2012-07-10 16:04:30 UTC
So if I understand you right, the Proteus is a solid ship for low/0.0 space, in PvE as well as on PvP, and overall, more people seem to use and like the Proteus than the Legion so I'll propably go towards Skilling a Proteus first and then maybe thinking about Legion in the future
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-10 16:18:27 UTC
Aiko Kurushio wrote:
So if I understand you right, the Proteus is a solid ship for low/0.0 space, in PvE as well as on PvP, and overall, more people seem to use and like the Proteus than the Legion so I'll propably go towards Skilling a Proteus first and then maybe thinking about Legion in the future


As with many ships, it is not without its flaws. Between a Proteus and legion however I think the Proteus has some clear advantages.

In PVP a proteus is a beast. It is however a beast with a short bite.

In PVE a blaster proteus can be effective, but not as optimal as say a Tengu due to very short range.

A sentry drone proteus can put out good damage at longer ranges than a legion. And has selectable damage types via drones. Depending on the situation an Ishtar is still a better choice especially due to cost. But by going for a Proteus you are very close to an ishtar anyhow.

I have a friend who runs WH sites with me in a legion. It works well, but he is almost done training for a tengu if that is any indictaion.

Short answer, if I were looking for a T3 with decent PVE and PVP capabilities, and the options were Proteus vs legion, I'd go for the Proteus first.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-07-10 16:38:09 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
blahblahblah



Sry you fail so hard to convince me your ultra omgfckinpownmobile drone pve Proteus is awesome, maybe because I use it.

Now for OP, you can't go wrong training for that Proteus, you'll have tons of fun with in pvp but for pve you'll probably going to hate it for obvious reasons you'll find out by yourself.
At least be sure you will never be able to run those sanctums in 30min alone, omgtckpwnmobile drone or blaster sub, for that you want something else.

brb
Aiko Kurushio
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#31 - 2012-07-10 16:47:31 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Aiko Kurushio wrote:
So if I understand you right, the Proteus is a solid ship for low/0.0 space, in PvE as well as on PvP, and overall, more people seem to use and like the Proteus than the Legion so I'll propably go towards Skilling a Proteus first and then maybe thinking about Legion in the future


As with many ships, it is not without its flaws. Between a Proteus and legion however I think the Proteus has some clear advantages.

In PVP a proteus is a beast. It is however a beast with a short bite.

In PVE a blaster proteus can be effective, but not as optimal as say a Tengu due to very short range.

A sentry drone proteus can put out good damage at longer ranges than a legion. And has selectable damage types via drones. Depending on the situation an Ishtar is still a better choice especially due to cost. But by going for a Proteus you are very close to an ishtar anyhow.

I have a friend who runs WH sites with me in a legion. It works well, but he is almost done training for a tengu if that is any indictaion.

Short answer, if I were looking for a T3 with decent PVE and PVP capabilities, and the options were Proteus vs legion, I'd go for the Proteus first.


Thanks a lot =) You've been very helpful
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#32 - 2012-07-10 16:52:43 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
blahblahblah

Sry you fail so hard to convince me your ultra omgfckinpownmobile drone pve Proteus is awesome, maybe because I use it.


Oh so you bail out again.
Your surrender has been accepted o7

bye o/
see you next time
will be fun to point out your shortcomings again Twisted
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-07-10 17:09:46 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
blahblahblah

Sry you fail so hard to convince me your ultra omgfckinpownmobile drone pve Proteus is awesome, maybe because I use it.


Oh so you bail out again.
Your surrender has been accepted o7

bye o/
see you next time
will be fun to point out your shortcomings again Twisted



LOl you never stop, there's no surrendering dude Lol
Your pve uber drone prot is fail and you can say whatever, this will not change, but yes keep using it because you should play like you wish.

brb
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#34 - 2012-07-10 18:36:39 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

LOl you never stop, there's no surrendering dude Lol
Your pve uber drone prot is fail and you can say whatever, this will not change, but yes keep using it because you should play like you wish.


You missed the whole point ( which was expected ). Hint : This is not about specific ship.
You repeat yourself over and over again without any arguments/counter-arguments contributing exactly nothing.
You constantly refuse to answer my post in which I had pointed out your lack of knowledge concerning things YOU were posting about.

To sum it up - yes you surrendered.

Making pointless posts ( like the one I just quoted ) does not equate to 'not surrendering'.
I don't think that you have anything worthwhile to add at this point.
To make your posts contributive you would need to actually provide some valid arguments and answer mine. You won't do that of course because as I said before :

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

And once again you speak about something you have no idea about.


while I :

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

I talk about ships/mods after testing them in game in different situations/sites and evaluating their usage/performance and because I fly almost exclusively those ships currently ( Ishtar + Proteus + Tengu ), I have a very good idea about how those ships are actually performing in situations I'm talking about.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-07-10 23:09:04 UTC
Batelle wrote:
For pve, the ishtar is the commonly accepted cheaper, better, more versatile alternative to the proteus (once you have good drone skills).


Maybe. The Proteus has an easier time fitting a good armor tank, and it's damn hard to squeeze a drone damage augmenter on an Ishtar.

And an Proteus is much better for exploration, since you can fit an expanded launcher and get the subsystem bonus to scanning. And a Proteus can be on the next gate or opening the can, while the sentry Ishtar is stuck orbiting one of it's drones.
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