These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Grats CCP, No armsrace will every be possible vs current tech holders
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
SetrakDark
Doomheim
#261 - 2012-07-10 04:13:27 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#262 - 2012-07-10 04:17:10 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?

No, just an absentee directorate.

Never not forget to pay sov bills. Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pipa Porto
#263 - 2012-07-10 04:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
SetrakDark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.



Never said income problem, I said "Money Problem" P Just happens to be a funny little sidenote showing that Goons are just as bad at the game as they claim. (and another, similar, sidenote where LAWN just has bad luck)

But yeah, I can't think of any occasion where a war was lost because the defense (or offense, for that matter) ran out of money either.

Ran out of will, Ran into someone with more people, Ran out of friends, sure. But never because they Ran out of money.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
SetrakDark
Doomheim
#264 - 2012-07-10 04:27:07 UTC
Heck, just look at the current war in the South. The supposedly poor techless alliances are throwing away t3 fleets almost daily and losing, while the supposedly wealthy tech alliances are mainly using drakes and winning.

The closest example I can think of was actually in terms of smart resource and logistics use, where WN had an entire backup supercap fleet waiting to go in POS in the drone regions, which was pretty decisive in finally stemming the NC advances in Geminate and turning the tide of the war. That had nothing to do with an income disparity though, and everything to do with the DRF spending their income wisely while the NC pissed it away on stations, JBs, and jammers in every system.

Again, the entire idea is so laughably wrong based on verifiable nullsec warfare history that only someone as clueless as marlona sky would champion it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#265 - 2012-07-10 04:33:04 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
But yeah, I can't think of any occasion where a war was lost because the defense (or offense, for that matter) ran out of money either.

Ran out of will, Ran into someone with more people, Ran out of friends, sure. But never because they Ran out of money.

Yeah, it seems attrition war is based on chasing away their pets/renters and grinding their morale down until they don't undock or log in.

Speaking of not undocking though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#266 - 2012-07-10 05:38:16 UTC
SetrakDark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.



Doesn't this kind of point to a problem? That the resources of all these alliances are so vast that depletion of your opponents funds is not a viable strategy? Should wars be more destructive? Perhaps the ability to destroy stations and the stock piled contents stored with in.

I'll be honest, no experience with null, but I do intend to move to null when I can (helping RL friends in their corp first), so this is a legitimate question hoping for experienced players' opinions.

James315 for CSM 8!
Pipa Porto
#267 - 2012-07-10 05:41:31 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
SetrakDark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.



Doesn't this kind of point to a problem? That the resources of all these alliances are so vast that depletion of your opponents funds is not a viable strategy? Should wars be more destructive? Perhaps the ability to destroy stations and the stock piled contents stored with in.

I'll be honest, no experience with null, but I do intend to move to null when I can (helping RL friends in their corp first), so this is a legitimate question hoping for experienced players' opinions.


Alliances with High Morale but no money win because their members do have money and are willing to spend it. It doesn't take much for an individual to be able to field Drakes to a Drakefleet.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#268 - 2012-07-10 05:53:10 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
SetrakDark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.



Doesn't this kind of point to a problem? That the resources of all these alliances are so vast that depletion of your opponents funds is not a viable strategy? Should wars be more destructive? Perhaps the ability to destroy stations and the stock piled contents stored with in.

I'll be honest, no experience with null, but I do intend to move to null when I can (helping RL friends in their corp first), so this is a legitimate question hoping for experienced players' opinions.


Alliances with High Morale but no money win because their members do have money and are willing to spend it. It doesn't take much for an individual to be able to field Drakes to a Drakefleet.


I can see the truth in that. I suppose if everyone is flying what they can afford to lose, it shouldn't be too hard to cover costs.

Kind of depressing though. In my mind I always pictured nullsec wars having drastic consequences. Although I suppose if your alliance would lose all sov, that would be a fairly drastic consequence.

James315 for CSM 8!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#269 - 2012-07-10 06:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Alliances with High Morale but no money win because their members do have money and are willing to spend it. It doesn't take much for an individual to be able to field Drakes to a Drakefleet.

I can see the truth in that. I suppose if everyone is flying what they can afford to lose, it shouldn't be too hard to cover costs.

Kind of depressing though. In my mind I always pictured nullsec wars having drastic consequences. Although I suppose if your alliance would lose all sov, that would be a fairly drastic consequence.

Morale is the real resource. Clearly having isk sitting somewhere but no pilots is ...

But pilots can get ships if they don't have em. Right now, to replace the reimbursements we get, I think a drake is half an hour of work, and a scorpion is about an hour. A hound is like 15 minutes. A blackbird is a few minutes.

My scorpion went out once in Delve and shot a few cruise missiles at a SBU.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2012-07-10 06:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortimer Civeri
Abel Merkabah wrote:

Doesn't this kind of point to a problem? That the resources of all these alliances are so vast that depletion of your opponents funds is not a viable strategy? Should wars be more destructive? Perhaps the ability to destroy stations and the stock piled contents stored with in.

I'll be honest, no experience with null, but I do intend to move to null when I can (helping RL friends in their corp first), so this is a legitimate question hoping for experienced players' opinions.

Rule one in Eve; Never fly what you can't afford to lose.

Two hours running anomalies/L4s(40-60 mill/hr) will get you enough money for a well fit drake, a few assault frigates, lots of cruisers, or a huge pile of rifters, with no alliance reimbursement. There is almost no way to interdict individual income streams, and as stated before, if morale remains high, people will log in and fight with their own money if they are motivated enough.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Pipa Porto
#271 - 2012-07-10 06:16:09 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
SetrakDark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Didn't the GSF lose Delve due to money problems?


Not having the ISK in the right wallet doesn't exactly qualify as an "income issue" in my mind.

:P

Quite literally I cannot think of one occasion in the three years I have followed nullsec wars where income played a role worth mentioning.



Doesn't this kind of point to a problem? That the resources of all these alliances are so vast that depletion of your opponents funds is not a viable strategy? Should wars be more destructive? Perhaps the ability to destroy stations and the stock piled contents stored with in.

I'll be honest, no experience with null, but I do intend to move to null when I can (helping RL friends in their corp first), so this is a legitimate question hoping for experienced players' opinions.


Alliances with High Morale but no money win because their members do have money and are willing to spend it. It doesn't take much for an individual to be able to field Drakes to a Drakefleet.


I can see the truth in that. I suppose if everyone is flying what they can afford to lose, it shouldn't be too hard to cover costs.

Kind of depressing though. In my mind I always pictured nullsec wars having drastic consequences. Although I suppose if your alliance would lose all sov, that would be a fairly drastic consequence.


A good Super fleet whelp does tend to do a number on most Alliance's wallets. I remember RA had to suspend their reimbursement program for a month or so after they lost something like 9 Titans in one fight.

That played merry havoc on morale even with the promise that reimbursements were simply delayed, not canceled.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#272 - 2012-07-10 06:19:08 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
A good Super fleet whelp does tend to do a number on most Alliance's wallets. I remember RA had to suspend their reimbursement program for a month or so after they lost something like 9 Titans in one fight.

That played merry havoc on morale even with the promise that reimbursements were simply delayed, not canceled.

Oooh...

So we need to bait and hotdrop some supers eh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pipa Porto
#273 - 2012-07-10 06:24:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A good Super fleet whelp does tend to do a number on most Alliance's wallets. I remember RA had to suspend their reimbursement program for a month or so after they lost something like 9 Titans in one fight.

That played merry havoc on morale even with the promise that reimbursements were simply delayed, not canceled.

Oooh...

So we need to bait and hotdrop some supers eh.


This was back when they were in Detorid. Who knows the current state of their finances.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2012-07-10 06:28:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A good Super fleet whelp does tend to do a number on most Alliance's wallets. I remember RA had to suspend their reimbursement program for a month or so after they lost something like 9 Titans in one fight.

That played merry havoc on morale even with the promise that reimbursements were simply delayed, not canceled.

Oooh...

So we need to bait and hotdrop some supers eh.

Death to all supercaps? Or is it, death to all supercaps, but Goons?

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#275 - 2012-07-10 06:30:46 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A good Super fleet whelp does tend to do a number on most Alliance's wallets. I remember RA had to suspend their reimbursement program for a month or so after they lost something like 9 Titans in one fight.

That played merry havoc on morale even with the promise that reimbursements were simply delayed, not canceled.

Oooh...

So we need to bait and hotdrop some supers eh.

Death to all supercaps? Or is it, death to all supercaps, but Goons?

I thought people were saying supercaps were the way to defeat goons? You shouldn't be supporting death to all supercaps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2012-07-10 06:32:00 UTC
forestwho wrote:
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk
-Good FC's tend to join such allaices as they are getting payed in isk and getting their ships fully reimbursed. This creates a

Quote:
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk

Quote:
pubic image

Shocked
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#277 - 2012-07-10 06:36:36 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk
-Good FC's tend to join such allaices as they are getting payed in isk and getting their ships fully reimbursed. This creates a

Quote:
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk

Quote:
pubic image

Shocked

Our isk definitely helps our public image.

Haha. No.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2012-07-10 06:38:32 UTC
They don't. They do give our pubes a mean trim though.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#279 - 2012-07-10 06:47:13 UTC
Thanks for the replies to my questions and correcting my misconceptions. I appreciate the valid responses.

James315 for CSM 8!
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#280 - 2012-07-10 08:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Only question i have is why cant a stage an attack on undefended moons to raid them of goo. Does it magically transport the huge distance between moon and pos? If small gangs could blow up the ships transporting the goo to the safe pos, gangs of 5-10 players could make an impact raiding supply lines.

Small defense fleets would form to catch them.

Small gang warfare could come back to null sec.

Also if your an allaince with so many systems that 70% of them are empty most of the time, you deserve to have your passive income stolen by brave pilots. It would promote smaller sov space. Come on its perfect !

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg