These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why !!!! CCP Why !!!! Cut it out Already
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Crimsonjade
Reikoku
Plug N Play
#41 - 2012-07-09 15:20:57 UTC
Karma OP. welcome to 2006 for everyone that played from the beginingLol
Mara Skye
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-07-09 15:27:14 UTC
And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#43 - 2012-07-09 15:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mara Skye wrote:
And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference?


Actually yes it is.

However I do think that ASB's should be one of those modules that are limited to 1 per ship, similar to a damage control.

It would still be very effective, but have the danger of the reload time... which would encourage people to get pretty inventive with how they either make hard decisions on when to break off or try to fill that gap in time by other means.

LOL you might even see shield and armor (or even structure) tanks become practical.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-07-09 15:35:01 UTC
Mara Skye wrote:
And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference?

No no no. Silly capsuleer. The draw of the game is obviously to win only by paying more ISK. Blink
Boomhaur
#45 - 2012-07-09 16:13:57 UTC
Reminds me of my old PVP alt with less than a day of training back when we started with 800k SP. I got into soo many fights with that toon it's not even funny. Held BS's down for 10-20min before, killed cruisers/frigs etc with months or years worth of training on me. Nice to hear others are giving the rich, high SP guys a run for their money by being spec in cheap ships.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
Sharil
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-07-09 16:36:05 UTC
Degren wrote:
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Sincerely

OP


I have. And let me tell you... Today everyone reminds with months giving otherwise.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-07-09 17:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
A few things, in no particular order:

1.) Wrong forum section.
2.) You either left out critical details (e.g. lucky ECM drones) or are really, really bad at flying proteuses (probably both).
3.) The proteus is easy to counter in 1v1s. If you want a t3 that isn't easy to rock/paper/scissors and isn't the tengu, get a dual web armor loki.
4.) ASBs do need some balancing changes. To all the people saying "BUT IT MADE ACTIVE TANKING USEFUL AGAIN," congratulations. Balancing should NEVER be done by saying **** it and introducing totally new modules.
Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars
#48 - 2012-07-09 17:17:59 UTC
Well this little story certainly verifies that new players can compete with the bitter vets! The chances are that the "newbie" you met was an experienced player's alt: they obviously knew what they were doing.

Having said that, however, there is also a small balancing issue with these new boosters which is becoming apparent (particularly if you have been keeping up with the alliance tournament, which is doing a splendid job of highlighting the issue). More than that, the simple ability to fit multiple ASB units on a ship needs to be scrapped, and this is likely to be addressed soon.
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-07-09 17:21:45 UTC
The other day I was chasing down a scimitar who had an ASB fit. My proteus does about half what the OP's stated DPS is, and yet I ALMOST had the bugger - then his domi friend landed and boosted him back up (half structure remaining, I could cry).

It's not over-powered, original poster.
Pipa Porto
#50 - 2012-07-09 18:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
The Protato wrote:
Lord Aliventi wrote:
Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself.


You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE.


I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire.


Shad0wsFury wrote:
Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them).


The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible (And 1 X-L is better than 2 Larges).

So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#51 - 2012-07-09 18:35:58 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Degren wrote:
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?



You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?

My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.

It’s just common sense.


Holy **** man! I was thinking something similar but far as you went to nail the head on the issue is even go want to further than I did
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-07-09 18:40:26 UTC
Dio Chrysostom wrote:
Even with all those odds in my favor I almost lost a 3 billion isk ship to a complete noob with 4 months worth of SP and no prior PvP experience.


Can I have your ship?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
DeadPool MercWithAMouth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-07-09 18:49:02 UTC
I believe, as I've mentioned in other post the ASB is the biggest fail CCP has done since Incarna. Everyone will fit them, they will be boring and as common as warp disruptors. Their is no counter. Armor tanks are obsolete, and so is every EFT fit i have done it the past. I have Gallente fits with ASB that are better now than they have ever been with armor, which is completely inconstant with the roll of the race or ship. My ASB dominix with 1000+ tank and 1500 dps can never be match by any armor tank BS in the game; which is fundamentally broken. I believe CCP may have been trying to nurf neutralizers by creating this module and failed. Many mention how Gallente can do shield fits, which is true but the design of the ASB allows ships with boosting attributes to benefit the most due to the increased boost-per-cap ratio, allowing a longer survival time. All Modules should scale well not only by Race, but also in ship size. Stories of assault frigs that have killed battle ships will be a thing of the past, then myth. Armor ships in general have needed a big boost, but have been neglected and rightly should be tougher than shields in my opinion. People posting "its not over-powered" either don't fly armor ships or are more invested in killing unknowing individuals while the booster still exist (which should have the graphic changed to a rainbow-flashing colored star).
Pipa Porto
#54 - 2012-07-09 19:05:42 UTC
DeadPool MercWithAMouth wrote:
Their is no counter.


You mean besides waiting 60s for charges to run out?

Or with 2 of them, waiting until the cargo empties?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#55 - 2012-07-09 19:08:19 UTC
Wait this OP guy is mad because he has to adapt?

He fails at eve.
Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA Real men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente.
Pipa Porto
#56 - 2012-07-09 19:16:49 UTC
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
Wait this OP guy is mad because he has to adapt?

He fails at eve.


The best part about it is that he doesn't have to adapt. He just has to not be terrible at flying a Proteus.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-07-09 19:31:15 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The Protato wrote:
Lord Aliventi wrote:
Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself.


You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE.


I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire.


Shad0wsFury wrote:
Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them).


The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible (And 1 X-L is better than 2 Larges).

So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned.


Just a thought but - 1k DPS from a Proteus is done with blasters.

That requires point-blank range to bring it to bear. Check it at different ranges and you'll find those numbers drop quite a bit and the OP's post has references to running around and high-speeds - meaning he probably wasn't within optimal to deliver all that EFT warrioring potential damage. As such, he probably had much lower DPS numbers.

Adjust it to a bit over double the time window to get closer. 4.5 minutes - pushing out say... 450 DPS from the drake still only takes it to just over 120k damage delivered but far more reliably than that gunship can pull off. That is still well inside his claim of 140k EHP but also in that "uncomfortable" zone towards the end.

Honestly it still smacks strongly of a whine about a specific fight. If the tourney shows the ASB to be OP, I imagine CCP will adjust it pretty fast. 1 per ship seems fitting.

BTW - a "4 month old noob" - probably an alt. As such, a focused build would yield between 1.5-2 mill SP per month -- 6-8 mill SP on that char. That puts it in a decent fit range for a drake.
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
#58 - 2012-07-09 19:38:54 UTC

If you want to be taken seriously, don't act like a six year old ending sentences with adverbs.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-07-09 19:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Von Mukesh wrote:
Aren't there severe penalties to the cpu (or is it cap?) to use these new mods?



Welp, the thing is that you can put more than one of those in some ships and then skill factor means absolutely nothing, your tank just becomes unbreakable and as long as you can fit a point and use mwd even with low dps you WILL kill your enemy.

I have some questions I'd like CCP to give an answer:

-why does it rep that much

-why they don't have fitting limitations (number you can fit)


So actually pvp in eve and fittings is quite easy: if you don't fly Drakes or Canes you're a noob and if you fit plates and armor tank you're also a stupid noob but if you solo pvp and don't use ASB Canes or Drakes you're definitively stupid and don't get Eve.

Amirite? Roll

I still think this module idea is great however the amount it reps and the fact you can use more than one mod per ship is plain stupid and bad overtime.

brb
Pipa Porto
#60 - 2012-07-09 20:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Mocam wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
The Protato wrote:
Lord Aliventi wrote:
Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself.


You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE.


I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire.


Shad0wsFury wrote:
Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them).


The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible (And 1 X-L is better than 2 Larges).

So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned.


Just a thought but - 1k DPS from a Proteus is done with blasters.

That requires point-blank range to bring it to bear. Check it at different ranges and you'll find those numbers drop quite a bit and the OP's post has references to running around and high-speeds - meaning he probably wasn't within optimal to deliver all that EFT warrioring potential damage. As such, he probably had much lower DPS numbers.

Adjust it to a bit over double the time window to get closer. 4.5 minutes - pushing out say... 450 DPS from the drake still only takes it to just over 120k damage delivered but far more reliably than that gunship can pull off. That is still well inside his claim of 140k EHP but also in that "uncomfortable" zone towards the end.

Honestly it still smacks strongly of a whine about a specific fight. If the tourney shows the ASB to be OP, I imagine CCP will adjust it pretty fast. 1 per ship seems fitting.

BTW - a "4 month old noob" - probably an alt. As such, a focused build would yield between 1.5-2 mill SP per month -- 6-8 mill SP on that char. That puts it in a decent fit range for a drake.


If he wasn't able to close within range with a 300m/s speed advantage (you're not going to be able to Nano a drake while doing 450dps and fitting an X-L ASB), then he is a terrible pilot, and should be ashamed.

Like I said in my first post, either he's lying about numbers or he's terrible at piloting. You can't assume that he's not able to put all his damage on the target but turn around and say that his speed's not going to negate a good portion of the Drake's damage. A MWDing Proteus has a Sig of ~950, so if he's moving around at his 1400m/s, he'll only be taking 290dps (per Pyfa's graphs) from the 3x BCU Drake, for a total of 78k damage over the 4.5m long fight.

The torney rules limit you to 1 ASB per ship, but that's because of the very limited amount of DPS the tourney format allows. In the rest of EvE, the ASB isn't nearly as useful as it is in the time and team limited tourney.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto