Science & Industry

I honestly do not pay that close attention to the taxes normally sort of just accept it as part of the biz, and since I expend most of it in my own processes it is still cheaper than buying someone else's product by a large enough margin to make the effort worth it.

But today, it seemed a bit more painful. I did a little numerical back checking. This is high sec so 10% rate. I pulled a block of robotics and the tax worked out to exactly 7k per unit. The local market hub said around 42k a unit sell price, the value per ccp using the cargo hold valution thingie says 46k per unit, and the highest in in system price is 70k per unit. So from the looks of it it is taking the highest local price.

I performed a similar test with another product and with no in system items and the tax seemd to match a price 7 jumps away that showed as the highest in the region.


So the question is did CCP F'up a number in the patch (maybe as part of the "STOP THE GOONS FROM EXPLOITING FW" patch and so this is a market value mix up) or have I been getting screwed for a long time and have just been to lazy to notice it?

Its not a *TAX*.

Its an import/export *DUTY*, and its a static value based on the tier of the product, not its current market value.

I guess this what I get for not paying attention, but here is the most important part of the thread posted above.

This is the base price the game uses to set the tax.

P0 = 5 isk base cost
P1 = 500 isk base cost
P2 = 9,000 isk base cost
P3 = 70,000 isk base cost
P4 = 1,350,000 isk base cost


These prices are now way out of date and no longer have any basis in fact. It appears before that they were a little high (some items above, most below), but now they are high for just about everything. This means the effective tax (duty) rate is often 1.5 to 3 times as high as listed.

I guess if CCP wants a cash sink they have one, but this is a little silly. It also means a high corp owned POCO rate (40-50%) is basically now equal to the entire sales price of the item.

Two request if a DEv happens to read this

Put the above table somewhere in the game so we can find it.

Consider using recently devolped market value estimation tools to update the base prices.

As discussed in the other thread, having the taxes calculated off of the estimated market price, rather than the static prices used now, would very quickly tank the PI market by reducing the tax everyone pays in high sec. Lower taxes means less of an isk sink and a greater ability to undercut. Further undercutting means lower average market value which drops taxes even further.

Though a lowering of tax in this case should not actually lower the price all that much, I beleive the weight of the tax actually does fall economically on the backs of the PI producers.



Reasons, if the purchaser actually paid the price the close to 10x increase in taxes would not have resulted in the same level or lower in prices that we had before the tax. The production of PI net value is annoyance/time vs income generated, but the actual material cost is is basially zero since almost all cost except tax are sunk cost.

SO if you lowered the effective tax from 20% back to 10%, this would mean a small increase in actual profit and a few more peole would enter the market, price ould drop and the tax would drop a bit more but each wave would be 10% at most of the previous wave.



I think that PI producers in the relevant range pf prices fall into a yes/no situation either I produce or I don't If prices are high and I may give it a try or lower my cycle time if I already produce, but ittle would cahnge unless the market price rose or fell out of the relevant range. (if prices grow to high or fell to low people might change their behavior, but 10-20% changes in isk per Hour is not going to suddenly change alot of peoples mind on PI)


In hte real world economic burden get mostly passed on to the consumer since net margins are not nearly this this large, idling plants makes sense since there is a per unit costs, and demand is a bit more elastic and supply of certain other complementary products are more elastic. (in the real world higher oil prices cause more oil to be produced, in eve higher tech prices does not change the supply of tech since the Dev have set max production at a certain level, and Makinaw ganking setting the production of ICe) . Since more complementary products cannot be produced no matter what the price the market can only use so many units of PI.

[facepalm]

I've been doing PI for over a year and thought I understood the tax system, but truly in Eve you learn something new every day. I was under the impression import/export fees depended on volume, and have spent a lot of time trying to minimize movement of low end products. When it turns out the low end products pay less tax per unit volume than the high ends...

They do have that.

Corporations who own POCOs can set different tax rates for players with different standings to that corporation. Want a lower tax rate on the POCO of X planet? Make friends with that corp.

As for skills that reduce the duties on import/export... PI is already based on trying to maximize your margins. As such, the Accounting and Broker Relations skills already help your margins. If you want to reduce the taxes you pay on the PI goods...go seek a POCO with a lower tax rate. No need for a skill for that.

My import/export tax is about 600mil/month according to EveMentat

If discussing EVE population numbers, please consider that many null-sec character owners also have a handful of characters supporting their null-sec activities. Some of those characters may, in fact, be permanent high-sec residents.

I am not downplaying the desire (need?) to keep improving high-sec game play or that high-sec players deserve more comprehensive CSM representation, but it is always good to have perspective on things.

Not to mention that (almost) all production except p0- p1 is loss making anyway (even without import/export tax).

p2 is only made for compression to have to do less hauls in non-highsec space to reduce risk (at the loss of profits).

If you can sell at p1 you should.
Or you have to sell final products (POS components/ t2) and use not buying off market to save you sales taxes for that extra percentage point of margin.
Unless you're a big, skilled up industrialist sell at P1.