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Is there no way to keep both Minmatar and Amarr happy with me?
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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-07-09 13:01:40 UTC
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned.


I have avoided running Empire Epics due to this misunderstanding, so am indebted to you for the clarification. Will give them a go (after a thorough read of the walkthrough) Pirate


Thinking about it now, there is one rat that counted as misc deadspace object for the large standing hit in the Minmatar arc. It's Ammatar Navy Detective, a frigate, if I remember correctly. It's optional, you don't have to kill it to complete mission.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#22 - 2012-07-09 14:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Tor Gungnir wrote:
If it was Gallente vs. Caldari I wouldn't be in this conundrum. But Amarr vs. Minmatar presents a problem because I love Minmatar, but to be with my Corp I have to be on Amarr's good side.


If you are in this bind for RP reasons, I can respect that. But speaking pragmatically, anything better than -2 with either side will let you operate in their space. Even if you've dropped yourself down below -2.0, training a few ranks in Diplomacy will get it back up quickly and easily (unless you were really really low).

Unless your corp is trying to get a high sec POS in Amarr space and your low faction with Amarr is dragging the corp average down, low standing shouldn't prevent you from flying with your corp buddies. If you do a single level 1 mission for an Amarr corp, your standing with them (the corp that is) will instantly become positive, even if you have a negative Amarr faction standing...at which point your connections skill (if you have it) will kick in and boost it even further.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
#23 - 2012-07-10 05:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Revenald Blackthorne
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:

I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente.

By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.


Just ran some quick math on the actual derived standings gains and losses I am seeing, as opposed to that which you would get if you applied the table which CCP shows as "official".

Assuming the same increase for all factions from a storyline, the table implies that you would increase your faction standing (up to a maximum) were you to run storyline missions round-robin through all empires (my focus - Amarr, Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, SoE, Ammatar, Khanid).

In actuality, you would need to run 3 Amarr, 5 Minmatar, 2 Gallente, 2 Caldari, 5 Ammatar and 3 Khanid to be combined with 1 SoE in order to show a consistent increase. Even so, while everyone but Minmatar shows at least an increase of at least 1 storyline gain, the maximum gain from Minmatar is only ~15% of one storyline. Thus, for 5 Minmatar missions, you get an end increase in standing of approximate 1/7 of 1 mission (Caveat - my SoE standing is already greater than 2.5, so no increase from grinding SoE).

The big problem is Ammatar vs. Minmatar, whose standing loss is over 100% of that gained. However, none of the other figures comply with the derived standings table. Making (and staying) friends with everyone is a challenge, and impossible if you rely on the derived standings table as dogma.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#24 - 2012-07-10 14:31:05 UTC
Shameless plug: If you go to Ammatar space, or at least the Rens area, you'll find both Amarr & Minmatar agents often in the same system. Might save you a lot of travel time in the long run.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Twitchy McTwitch
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-07-11 13:29:18 UTC
A little side bar to this whole conversation.

Asking for help from friends will go a long way towards this repair process.

I have not read the faction standing repair plan, so I may end up repeating.

Get friends who can get into level 4 missions - and ask them to START the missions for you, they are nearly always PIRATE ONLY missions, if the person who started them had the CORPORATE standings to run level 4s in the first place.

Do missions and use the share-rewards option (ask them nicely) until you can run those missions yourself.

This way, while you are running the 16 mission series, you won't be told to kill other nations' ships. I know that in a lot of level 2 and 3 missions, I somehow get told to kill Gallente all the time, and I have had to repeat blood-stained stars WAY too many times to repair my gallente standings.

Not a "solution" to the problem, but, might slow down the pain.
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
#26 - 2012-07-23 06:41:48 UTC
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:

By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.


Just received the following from CCP:
"The problem you have described (loss of 115% of Minmatar standing gain in derived Ammatar standing loss) is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug."

Thus, you should never be able to consistently increase Ammatar while increasing Minmatar, as the Ammatar does not have a high enough derived increase to Caldari and Amarr to offset the various derived decreases - unless they add an Ammatar Epic arc.
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