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Grats CCP, No armsrace will every be possible vs current tech holders
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Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-07-08 17:51:16 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Riiiight, cause my 250 man alliance stands a real good chance in a war for assets against the tens of thousnads of members of the CFC. Every time one of your gangs comes through we destroy it (in admittedly usually good fights), but I am not delusional enough to think we could even make a stand in a real war. You out number us 100 to 1, an some of us don't enjoy playing in TiDi.

You know what you can do? You can talk to a bigger alliance, and help them out, either defending or taking space with them. If your 250 man alliance isn't totally incompetent, or you have some potential, maybe they will help you get some space to grow in, in return. It's called diplomacy, you should try it.

It amazes me that people still think 0.0 is still some neo-feudalistic playground, rather than a group of nation-states each with their own political and ideological rivalries, friendships, and politically expediant bedfellows.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-07-08 17:52:14 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-07-08 17:53:41 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.


But what about the other half of the galaxy we conquered
Dave Stark
#84 - 2012-07-08 17:54:35 UTC
forestwho wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.


I dont realy care who has the isk now, fact is... next couple of years were all effected by this disbalancement and it doesnt exacly makes the 0.0 wars/ politics/ pew pew/ explosion quality any better.....

There is alot more involved that creates the EVE experiance than just pew pew.... if ppl are leaving the game because its so disbalanced and sooo obvius retared, the internal fun of being in a 0.0 is affected.... thereby less valued and the game dies a little bit

This happends on small scale but has a butterfly affect that will cause hugh inpact on long term... this is what im trying to explain in my first post... but as obvius my english isnt as good as my brains & eve experiance


i've been in both the south and the north of nullsec, and it honestly has nothing to do with tech, or isk.

it's the players.

when i was in the south and a CTA was called, either people didn't bother and carried on ratting instead of defending their sov, or just sitting docked in a station until the bad men went away... however in the north it's so, so different.
yes, granted i may have just been with ****** people in the south. still, the difference between where i was and where i am is like day and night, that's all down to the people.

yes sure having boat loads of isk will give some one an advantage, but that means nothing if you're sitting on piles of isk and refuse to undock to defend your piles of isk. no matter what CCP does they can not force people to play a certain way. the whole issue here is the people and nothing more.

let's assume for a second that one group of people ends up in control of null sec (doesn't matter who it is, soco, cfc, goons, your granny's favourite tea pot, or gene wilder) they are going to get bored, eventually they'll either collapse internally, or reset each other for some shooting, and new coalitions will form and the cycle will go on. this perceived lack of balance will not cause the demise of the game, really.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-07-08 17:58:07 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.


But what about the other half of the galaxy we conquered



Rather be lucky then good.

I'm not hating, that's how it works.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#86 - 2012-07-08 18:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Xpaulusx
This was a problem before CFC, even before old NC, in fact it was Mitti himself who complian about TEC so you cant point the finger at CFC, its CCP fault with the endless footdragging on this issue. Scream at CCP not fellow Gamers.

......................................................
forestwho
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-07-08 18:04:00 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

i've been in both the south and the north of nullsec, and it honestly has nothing to do with tech, or isk.

it's the players.

when i was in the south and a CTA was called, either people didn't bother and carried on ratting instead of defending their sov, or just sitting docked in a station until the bad men went away... however in the north it's so, so different.
yes, granted i may have just been with ****** people in the south. still, the difference between where i was and where i am is like day and night, that's all down to the people.

yes sure having boat loads of isk will give some one an advantage, but that means nothing if you're sitting on piles of isk and refuse to undock to defend your piles of isk. no matter what CCP does they can not force people to play a certain way. the whole issue here is the people and nothing more.


I agree with you on some part with this. Peaples playing mentality is also very important. I do not want to go into this one too much as we end up in a conversation about blobbing again. Fact is though that a pile of "free" isk can mean a whole lot as in terms of free 100% full reimbursements. I know for example that the AAA T3 doctrine is not fully 100% reimbursed which does affect the will to fight vs larger numbers.

Dave stark wrote:

let's assume for a second that one group of people ends up in control of null sec (doesn't matter who it is, soco, cfc, goons, your granny's favourite tea pot, or gene wilder) they are going to get bored, eventually they'll either collapse internally, or reset each other for some shooting, and new coalitions will form and the cycle will go on. this perceived lack of balance will not cause the demise of the game, really.


I totaly agree with you on this but eve would become terrible boring for a long time before this internal collapse. Than i come back at this butterfly affect i posted earlier.
forestwho
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-07-08 18:05:36 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
This was a problem before CFC, even before old NC, in fact it was Mitti himself who complian about TEC so you cant point the finger at CFC, its CCP fault with the endless footdragging on this issue. Scream at CCP not fellow Gamers.



Im not, read thread title....... im not blaming anyone, im saying that injecting a high amount of isk in the economie is going to affect us (everyone, eve plitics, pew pew, ship explosions and roamin) for many years,... and this is very unhealthy
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-07-08 18:05:43 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
This was a problem before CFC, even before old NC, in fact it was Mitti himself who complian about TEC so you cant point the finger at CFC, its CCP fault with the endless footdragging on this issue. Scream at CCP not fellow Gamers.



Tinfoil says CCP is Goons Evil


...not really but squeaky wheel gets the grease, and they squeak like mad.
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-07-08 18:07:07 UTC
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


CFC hasnt fought for anything.

Goons were given Dek
The rest of you either were already NC pets, that switched sides, or took vacated space. Any member of the CFC cannot do anything by themselves. Thats why there are 40k of them in the north. Also include PL in this. Since PL cant even hold their own Tech moons without callilng the CFC to save them.

The only thing that will break up the big circle jerk is a tech nerf, making it so expensive to hold more space that is needed or adding the War Dec mechanic that makes them pay for blue standings. Since they are "Allies" they should have the same cost.

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2012-07-08 18:13:00 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


CFC hasnt fought for anything.

Goons were given Dek
The rest of you either were already NC pets, that switched sides, or took vacated space. Any member of the CFC cannot do anything by themselves. Thats why there are 40k of them in the north. Also include PL in this. Since PL cant even hold their own Tech moons without callilng the CFC to save them.

The only thing that will break up the big circle jerk is a tech nerf, making it so expensive to hold more space that is needed or adding the War Dec mechanic that makes them pay for blue standings. Since they are "Allies" they should have the same cost.


branch? tenal? CR? Fountain?

And we should pay to -not- shoot each other... good luck with that....
Apostate Lucius
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-07-08 18:15:50 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees.

Also Goons give themselves more credit than they deserve. They were greatly inferior to BOB and couldn't beat them. That's why they had to basically cheat (even if not violating EULA) by, infiltrating the corp and disassembling from the inside. Goons would of never been able to beat BOB in a normal war, and they know that too. If they thought for even a second they could win they wouldn't have destroyed BOB in one fell swoop with no shots fired. Why take away your biggest target if you think you can beat them? Because they knew they had zero chance.


You speak the Goon mentality truly, in that they use their allies to further themselves. Allies like FA and TEST, nothing more than tools to be employed in the commision of a task, and then petted on the head and tossed a few scraps to keep you placated. A TEST member once said that the Goons and TEST were BFFs, but the reality is that Goons don't have friends. Goons watch out for Goons, no one else. When you have served your purpose, you will be tossed aside if you are lucky.

The Goons are BoB now, in every way short of name. History repeats itself again, and how much of that history being repeated is unknown to everyone but to CCP and Mittani. Why it has taken this long for anyone to come to the conclusion is beyond me. I'm sure that during their transitional period would have been a good time to strike out, but unfortunately I believe everyone involved with them had nothing but stars in their eyes. Now given the pure money situation along with their combat doctrine, it's likely that no one will ever be capable of dislodging them from their position.

Why though, does all of null sec expect the high sec players to come and save them? Are the null sec players not up to the task themselves? What does that say when such players disparage a group that they fully expect to come and do what they are either afraid to do, or are just unwilling?

Let Caesar never forget, though he may rule with the authority of the gods, he is allowed to rule by the whim of the people.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#93 - 2012-07-08 18:17:47 UTC
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:
CFC hasnt fought for anything.

So bitter. Big smile
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-07-08 18:18:26 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.


we inherited like 20 tech moons from TCF after the merger

we took the other 50-60 tech moons we have

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-07-08 18:21:05 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees.

Also Goons give themselves more credit than they deserve. They were greatly inferior to BOB and couldn't beat them. That's why they had to basically cheat (even if not violating EULA) by, infiltrating the corp and disassembling from the inside. Goons would of never been able to beat BOB in a normal war, and they know that too. If they thought for even a second they could win they wouldn't have destroyed BOB in one fell swoop with no shots fired. Why take away your biggest target if you think you can beat them? Because they knew they had zero chance.


disbanding BoB only took away their sov 4 advantage and prevented them from jamming systems for a few weeks

I mean surely Omnipotence Itself didn't need that advantage right?????

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
forestwho
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-07-08 18:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: forestwho
Richard Desturned wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees.

Also Goons give themselves more credit than they deserve. They were greatly inferior to BOB and couldn't beat them. That's why they had to basically cheat (even if not violating EULA) by, infiltrating the corp and disassembling from the inside. Goons would of never been able to beat BOB in a normal war, and they know that too. If they thought for even a second they could win they wouldn't have destroyed BOB in one fell swoop with no shots fired. Why take away your biggest target if you think you can beat them? Because they knew they had zero chance.


disbanding BoB only took away their sov 4 advantage and prevented them from jamming systems for a few weeks

I mean surely Omnipotence Itself didn't need that advantage right?????


with razor, mm, goon, test and pl supers bob only could win fights if they fought under cyno jammers. Thats was taken way so he did collapse bob kinda.... Their jb advantage was also lost, hugh asset loss
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-07-08 18:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Richard Desturned wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.


we inherited like 20 tech moons from TCF after the merger

we took the other 50-60 tech moons we have



Pretty easy when you sit on your laurels.

Only conflict you got involved in was on DRF's side, and you didn't to jack there either.

WN was Horus'd Raiden. was an inside job (or a Goon spy) neither or which could be claimed as a military victory. Oddly you never tried against NC. There were scraps, but othing real.

You zerged Raiden with what 180 dreads to kill a Titan, and lost half of that fleet. If you can't beat them join them right?

So what do you do against an allaince that doesn't really care about space? Its been proven repeatedly that -A- is dead, and couldn't possibly do anything. Yet here we are, the leader of the SoCo, by default. We don't play your game. Bring that ****.


:edit

waving the hand as a (lol) "badposter"
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2012-07-08 18:30:02 UTC
Apostate Lucius wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.

Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.

If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.


Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees.

Also Goons give themselves more credit than they deserve. They were greatly inferior to BOB and couldn't beat them. That's why they had to basically cheat (even if not violating EULA) by, infiltrating the corp and disassembling from the inside. Goons would of never been able to beat BOB in a normal war, and they know that too. If they thought for even a second they could win they wouldn't have destroyed BOB in one fell swoop with no shots fired. Why take away your biggest target if you think you can beat them? Because they knew they had zero chance.


You speak the Goon mentality truly, in that they use their allies to further themselves. Allies like FA and TEST, nothing more than tools to be employed in the commision of a task, and then petted on the head and tossed a few scraps to keep you placated. A TEST member once said that the Goons and TEST were BFFs, but the reality is that Goons don't have friends. Goons watch out for Goons, no one else. When you have served your purpose, you will be tossed aside if you are lucky.

The Goons are BoB now, in every way short of name. History repeats itself again, and how much of that history being repeated is unknown to everyone but to CCP and Mittani. Why it has taken this long for anyone to come to the conclusion is beyond me. I'm sure that during their transitional period would have been a good time to strike out, but unfortunately I believe everyone involved with them had nothing but stars in their eyes. Now given the pure money situation along with their combat doctrine, it's likely that no one will ever be capable of dislodging them from their position.

Why though, does all of null sec expect the high sec players to come and save them? Are the null sec players not up to the task themselves? What does that say when such players disparage a group that they fully expect to come and do what they are either afraid to do, or are just unwilling?


Untrue friend. We treat our allies a damn sight better than anyone else does, why do you think we have so many?

And no we're using hisec players as an example that there is a recruitment base out there. ie the CFC doesn't control +50% of the numbers in eve.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2012-07-08 18:33:31 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
forestwho wrote:
Doesnt matter all, fact is..... 0.0 is numbers and super... both are easy to be bought with isk and isk promises to good corporations. Fact is, exessively amount of isks on one side is not healty and is severly disbalancing the game for many years to come....


The one side took the isk. if its not balanced then its the other sides fault for not seeing their chance and taking it for themselves.



You were handed that ****, do I have to go link it off you wiki AGAIN? Don't make me go back though my post history.


we inherited like 20 tech moons from TCF after the merger

we took the other 50-60 tech moons we have



Pretty easy when you sit on your laurels.

Only conflict you got involved in was on DRF's side, and you didn't to jack there either.

WN was Horus'd Raiden. was an inside job (or a Goon spy) neither or which could be claimed as a military victory. Oddly you never tried against NC. There were scraps, but othing real.

You zerged Raiden with what 180 dreads to kill a Titan, and lost half of that fleet. If you can't beat them join them right?

So what do you do against an allaince that doesn't really care about space? Its been proven repeatedly that -A- is dead, and couldn't possibly do anything. Yet here we are, the leader of the SoCo, by default. We don't play your game. Bring that ****.


:edit

waving the hand as a (lol) "badposter"


How was Raiden. an inside job? and if you don't care about space why do you hold it? why were you planning to take fountain and cr if you 'dont want space'?
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#100 - 2012-07-08 18:35:12 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Bring that ****.

Undock then. I'll wave hi in local for you. Roll