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The use of Reactive Armor Hardeners

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St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-07-02 12:03:18 UTC
The grammar discussion was more interesting than the module discussion.
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-07-02 12:34:55 UTC
It's funny how a single post is made correcting grammar (this was needlessly inflammatory, but it happens even when brought up in the most respectful fashion), and a wave of angry posts ensue made by people seemingly so insecure about making grammatical mistakes that they can't stand to see someone bring the subject up. Who's really more disruptive, someone who corrects grammar, even if they're doing it obnoxiously, or 13 posts rabbling about it for pages afterwards?

Anyway, I haven't done much testing with the module, but personally I think the skill should be changed to be both a 10% time reduction and an equivalent capacitor use reduction to counteract that, so you don't wind up draining your capacitor just because you've trained up a skill. Reducing cycle time and thus increasing cap drain over time makes sense for boosters and repairers, because they can be reasonably pulsed. You can't really pulse a resistance module, however, which means the skill includes a built-in increasing nerf of the module to go with its increase in effectiveness.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#23 - 2012-07-02 17:44:50 UTC
it needs a t2 variant with 80% total resistance to spread around rather than 60%

otherwise its complete **** as t1 version

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#24 - 2012-07-02 17:55:35 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
it needs a t2 variant with 80% total resistance to spread around rather than 60%

otherwise its complete **** as t1 version



A module that potentially gives 80% unstacked resistance is far too powerful. Improved variants should have shorter cycle times (leading to quicker damage type adaptation)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#25 - 2012-07-02 18:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Malcanis wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
it needs a t2 variant with 80% total resistance to spread around rather than 60%

otherwise its complete **** as t1 version



A module that potentially gives 80% unstacked resistance is far too powerful. Improved variants should have shorter cycle times (leading to quicker damage type adaptation)


The difference in bonus between 2 EANM II and 1 EANM + Reactive Armor Hardener (with two 30% resists) is 4%.

It doesn't give those 80% as you say.
Using 2 EANM II is still better.

edit: I tested it on the lowest (EXP) resist. You'll get less difference on a higher resist.

Whatever.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#26 - 2012-07-08 00:35:30 UTC
So the skill doesn't reduce cap usage? We have told CCP several times, but they didn't listen, I wonder how they could oversee something like this.

Such incompetence befitting of CCP many times.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#27 - 2012-07-08 02:18:08 UTC
Moving this from General Discussion to Ships and Modules. Anyone that wants to discuss what it can and can't do is more than free to follow it over.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Lili Lu
#28 - 2012-07-08 03:49:48 UTC
So far it seems the reviews are in on this mod, and they shout its praises in one loud and . . tepid voice. Of course I suppose this was meant to be for armor buffer tanking the counterpart to the ancilliary shield booster for active shield tanking. In that endeavor CCP was so amazingly successful. We will surely see both mods equally produced and sought after.

Who would have thought CCP could get it so right? In introducing these two new tanking mods they really loved both tanking systems without tilting the playing field further. Such a balanced game. And I'm so glad I can play for 5 whole minutes before my game freezes for about a minute as I'm warping to a gate in lowsec. But surely if I fit one of these I'll be able to tank the wating campers like a champ while I wait for it to unfreeze. Ugh
Seigfried Hakaari
Dark Gaia Corporation
#29 - 2012-07-08 11:18:48 UTC
The entire idea of it is flawed, the vast majority of the time the resist bonus is completely wasted because it either doesn't trigger before the fight ends, damage types change or it ends up spread over too many damage types to be more useful than a regular EANM.

A simple solution would just be to make it comparable to the Invulnerability Field, a direct Active upgrade from the EANM. No, it's not an answer to ACB's, but it never will be anyway, simply because the way the two function is completely different.
Dagonite Retzer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-07-08 12:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagonite Retzer
Tbh, in its current incarnation this module looks like a total waste of time.

I don't really know if it's even possible to make this module competitive without making it OP, but i'll throw in my 2 cents:

Taking blatent inspiration from the ASB, how about making it use cap booster charges (eg: 800s) for instant adaptation to damage types, with a 1 minute reload time for another charge. If you don't fire 800s, it works exactly like it does now (...or maybe a little better...just to make it remotely useful.)
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#31 - 2012-07-08 13:44:14 UTC
Adaptive Resistance Plating I (base stats)
Low Slot
CPU: 30
PG: 1
Capacity: 1.00 m3
Explosive dmg resistance bonus: 10%
EM dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Kinetic dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Thermal dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Used with (charge group): Resistance Script

Then fit scripts to it.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#32 - 2012-07-08 19:53:20 UTC
Seigfried Hakaari wrote:
The entire idea of it is flawed, the vast majority of the time the resist bonus is completely wasted because it either doesn't trigger before the fight ends, damage types change or it ends up spread over too many damage types to be more useful than a regular EANM.

A simple solution would just be to make it comparable to the Invulnerability Field, a direct Active upgrade from the EANM. No, it's not an answer to ACB's, but it never will be anyway, simply because the way the two function is completely different.


This.

After testing it for more then a week I came to conclusion this mod is a total waste of space and cap:
- uses a lot of cap
- still builds up too long, with Armor Resistance Phasing level 4. I guess level 5 won't change this a bit.
- the resist bonus is too low. In the best case scenario it gives you 30%/30%, unless you fight some caldari guy that can change the damage type. Happend to me a few times already.

Even if that mod had 1 sec build time it would be still useless. :(

Whatever.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#33 - 2012-07-08 19:53:32 UTC
Seigfried Hakaari wrote:
The entire idea of it is flawed, the vast majority of the time the resist bonus is completely wasted because it either doesn't trigger before the fight ends, damage types change or it ends up spread over too many damage types to be more useful than a regular EANM.

A simple solution would just be to make it comparable to the Invulnerability Field, a direct Active upgrade from the EANM. No, it's not an answer to ACB's, but it never will be anyway, simply because the way the two function is completely different.

This.


After testing it for more then a week I came to conclusion this mod is a total waste of space and cap:
- uses a lot of cap
- still builds up too long, with Armor Resistance Phasing level 4. I guess level 5 won't change this a bit.
- the resist bonus is too low. In the best case scenario it gives you 30%/30%, unless you fight some caldari guy that can change the damage type. Happend to me a few times already.

Even if that mod had 1 sec build time it would be still useless. :(

Whatever.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#34 - 2012-07-08 21:31:32 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:

After testing it for more then a week I came to conclusion this mod is a total waste of space and cap:
- uses a lot of cap
- still builds up too long, with Armor Resistance Phasing level 4. I guess level 5 won't change this a bit.
- the resist bonus is too low. In the best case scenario it gives you 30%/30%, unless you fight some caldari guy that can change the damage type. Happend to me a few times already.

Even if that mod had 1 sec build time it would be still useless. :(


And yet drake fleets still only use kinetic missiles.....Though I too think the meta and t2 versions have much more promise.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-07-08 21:48:31 UTC
Veryez wrote:
Funky Lazers wrote:

After testing it for more then a week I came to conclusion this mod is a total waste of space and cap:
- uses a lot of cap
- still builds up too long, with Armor Resistance Phasing level 4. I guess level 5 won't change this a bit.
- the resist bonus is too low. In the best case scenario it gives you 30%/30%, unless you fight some caldari guy that can change the damage type. Happend to me a few times already.

Even if that mod had 1 sec build time it would be still useless. :(


And yet drake fleets still only use kinetic missiles.....Though I too think the meta and t2 versions have much more promise.



+25% Kinetic DMG quite sure can compensate for a weaker resist hole for about 5% at least, then there's also alpha when it comes to numbers and unless you fight a fit for about 95% kin resist, Kin will almost always do better dmg (however having some eplo/EM§Therm in your cargo doesn't hurt.

brb
Ryoko Matsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-07-09 08:23:49 UTC
i like this module in missions on my alt´s domi...

+ two mission specific hardeners and it gives fine resists...

if i´m lazy and don´t like to change hardeners before missions, i smack in one EANM, DCU II and a RAH...
tanks nearly everything (gank/tank)

i can see also use of this module against a drake fleet in an archon =;O)
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#37 - 2012-07-11 11:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
I feel the real issue with the mod as a starter is that you can only fit one. The RAH was made to augment small conflict armor buffers ( This seems clear to me a least by how it works). Since I can only fit one my resists don't change fast enough and not by a large enough amount. To me the clear answer is to first remove one RAH limit, this horrible gimp for them. You can use two ASBs so why not two RAHs?

After this, we can then again discuss whether this mod is total complete crap like it currently is.
Bibosikus
Air
#38 - 2012-07-11 11:48:24 UTC
The RAH:

Interesting and potentially very useful idea,

Poorly implemented.

Like so many other features of Eve.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-07-11 11:52:24 UTC
Is there any reason to fit one over a DCU II?

I struggle to find one.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
corwin1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-07-11 18:07:59 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Adaptive Resistance Plating I (base stats)
Low Slot
CPU: 30
PG: 1
Capacity: 1.00 m3
Explosive dmg resistance bonus: 10%
EM dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Kinetic dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Thermal dmg resistance bonus: 10%
Used with (charge group): Resistance Script

Then fit scripts to it.


Hmm yes either the module needs to use scripts that have no reload time (obviously it will take someone a few seconds to select the desired script) and have the resists increase with the meta level or it should as previously suggested have a much faster adaption speed while the higher meta levels allow for even faster reaction speeds than the current varient.