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(Proposal) Cloaky reds in system & Macro miners in Eve, how to make life harder for them.

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#281 - 2012-07-07 14:43:00 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Um... most players online at any given time are in High sec. Even during a null battle, there are a lot in HS, so dscan numbers still wouldn't be "all the players".

Also server performance can mean many things, not just lag.
Btw, the lag from the dscan was on an individual basis. You could click faster than it would show results, so you would get delayed results. It would not cause lag for a person who wasn't doing it. And the only thing that lagged for the person spamming dscan was the dscan results.

So it is not an issue (the lag I mean).



You are wrong. That's would an issue.

No it wouldn't.

Its only an issue for the moron clicking it every second thinking that will give them a better (ie more immediate) result. And since CCP limited it to 2 seconds, there is no lag at all from it.

There would be no system lag even if CCP left it the way it was. The only lag would be on per user basis and only for the person spamming the button and only for their dscan results.

This is not an issue. If someone does something stupid that only effects them, then its their problem.


No.
The too much data requests generate lag, not the +3 click on d-scan.
This is same when +30 fleet traveling and the pilots spam the jump button at gates. With small pilot numbers the created lag is minimal.
But what happen when four full fleet trying to jump with 1024 pilots ? The too much data requests in same time generate massive lag.

ATM 0.0005% players use dscan button same time. But if the local would dissapear the all pilots must to use the dscan button continously.
Thats would increasing the dscan requests from servers at least fifty times more than now.

Your wrong. The data requests for dscan results when there was no limit was so small the lag was not even noticeable (except with the return of results). With the 2 second limit, there would be no lag even if everyone was using it all the time (which they won't because rarely do HS folks bother).
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#282 - 2012-07-07 15:33:40 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Nhi'Khuna wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:


Your analogy is crap from laggenerator.
Just few eve players live in wormholes continuosly.

I realy like when an idiot know everything better than CCP.

Repeat: "CCP Atlas: "There is a new 2 second delay in using the directional scanner. This has been done for server performance reasons."

That was when just few pvp players spammed D-Scan when enemy appeared on local.
That was when just ~15k players played with Eve and not ~40k-50k.

But now with your idiot idea,the whole playerbase would be needed with this steadily to deal.
The whole playerbase must be spamming D-SCAN continously because they wont see the local anymore !!!!
Continuos 50000 new requests/2 seconds. Bravo you created the new flood button to Eve server.




I'm not proposing that they remove local in null-sec, but I am arguing that it is a massive lag generator. The difference in "lag" between no delay on d-scan and a 2second delay is infinite, almost literally. The change was made because people could spam d-scan faster than it was readable, many many times per second. By reducing the delay to two seconds, it significantly reduced the impact of that "lag" to a point where it is all but un-noticeable today.

I was also pointing out that lag from d-scan wouldn't hurt you in your extremely small groups of miners that are scared of a single covops ship, as there wouldn't be enough of you to cause that lag, in your own words. And server lag is generated on a node-by-node basis, it doesn't matter that there are now 40k-50k people playing eve, when most of those are in high-sec and even if they were all spamming d-scan there, it wouldn't impact your null-bearing.

Also, just a few eve players live in Wormholes continuously, but that number is more significant than you think, I'm sure of that.



LOL more significaly WH players. :P You are a joke few hundred players not count, thats not number for D-SCAN.
But 50k player is count.

"The difference in "lag" between no delay on d-scan and a 2second delay is infinite, almost literally.:

Oh man. You are a literaly g.
The D-SCAN spamming numbers generating the lag. That was in the past few hundreds/second when CCP changed, and after your idiot idea would be ten thousands/second because the players not clicking to scan button in same time but they would be ust to use everywhere from 0.0 to high sec check probes , enemies, wartargets etc.
This is another idiot request for I-Win button from a coward cloaker -snip- and this idea has technicaly difficulties for server which would be generate massive server requests to server which is generating lag.
Go to WH and enjoy your no local area and enjoy your cloak there little coward and dont want to create a "ping of death" button.

Post has been edited for attempts to bypass the filters. Please address the topic instead of attacking the poster.

ISD Tyrozan


Still finding it hilarious how he calls people who live in wormholes "cowards" yet he's spent fourteen pages crying his eyes out desperate for CCP to do something about the AWAY FROM KEYBOARD players who scare him so badly that he instantly warps to a POS/Station and refuses to come out.


I realy like when i see how you trying with your 4 alts to cry and trying to save your poor coward cloaker advantages while you never wrote a rational argument.


Hahaha this is perfect. Claiming OTHERS are using a boatload of alts and not making rational arguments. Hahahaha. Go away rib.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2012-07-07 17:30:53 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Um... most players online at any given time are in High sec. Even during a null battle, there are a lot in HS, so dscan numbers still wouldn't be "all the players".

Also server performance can mean many things, not just lag.
Btw, the lag from the dscan was on an individual basis. You could click faster than it would show results, so you would get delayed results. It would not cause lag for a person who wasn't doing it. And the only thing that lagged for the person spamming dscan was the dscan results.

So it is not an issue (the lag I mean).



You are wrong. That's would an issue.

No it wouldn't.

Its only an issue for the moron clicking it every second thinking that will give them a better (ie more immediate) result. And since CCP limited it to 2 seconds, there is no lag at all from it.

There would be no system lag even if CCP left it the way it was. The only lag would be on per user basis and only for the person spamming the button and only for their dscan results.

This is not an issue. If someone does something stupid that only effects them, then its their problem.


No.
The too much data requests generate lag, not the +3 click on d-scan.
This is same when +30 fleet traveling and the pilots spam the jump button at gates. With small pilot numbers the created lag is minimal.
But what happen when four full fleet trying to jump with 1024 pilots ? The too much data requests in same time generate massive lag.

ATM 0.0005% players use dscan button same time. But if the local would dissapear the all pilots must to use the dscan button continously.
Thats would increasing the dscan requests from servers at least fifty times more than now.

Your wrong. The data requests for dscan results when there was no limit was so small the lag was not even noticeable (except with the return of results). With the 2 second limit, there would be no lag even if everyone was using it all the time (which they won't because rarely do HS folks bother).


No you are wrong and talkin bullsh*t. The CCP guys give to us good argumenst for this.
The 2 second delay dont count because not all players hit the dscan button in same time.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2012-07-07 18:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Still finding it hilarious how he calls people who live in wormholes "cowards" yet he's spent fourteen pages crying his eyes out desperate for CCP to do something about the AWAY FROM KEYBOARD players who scare him so badly that he instantly warps to a POS/Station and refuses to come out.

Taking advantage of a poorly designed game mechanic to exploit players with almost no effort or danger on your part is not only cowardly, it is borderline game exploit. It's not cowardly at all to take steps to stay safe.

I think there should be a way to find cloakers, not easy obviously, but possible. Anyone who cloaks and walks away from their computer should be facing danger too.

And please guys, can you clip your gigantic quotenoughts?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#285 - 2012-07-07 18:56:11 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
[quote=Corina Jarr][quote=TravelBuoy][stuff from before]

No you are wrong and talkin bullsh*t. The CCP guys give to us good argumenst for this.
The 2 second delay dont count because not all players hit the dscan button in same time.


Please read. The reason for the change was not overall lag. There was lag between the time you would hit the dscan button and the time you would get the results because you were spamming the button. This only effected you. Say you were spamming the button and cause lag for yourself. I go and hit dscan, and I get my results near instantly, because your lag in this case does not effect mine. It is a communication with the individual client issue.

So even if 50k people all hit dscan at the same time, there would be no issue at all.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2012-07-08 06:26:08 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
Corina Jarr wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
[quote=Corina Jarr][quote=TravelBuoy][stuff from before]

No you are wrong and talkin bullsh*t. The CCP guys give to us good argumenst for this.
The 2 second delay dont count because not all players hit the dscan button in same time.


Please read. The reason for the change was not overall lag. There was lag between the time you would hit the dscan button and the time you would get the results because you were spamming the button. This only effected you. Say you were spamming the button and cause lag for yourself. I go and hit dscan, and I get my results near instantly, because your lag in this case does not effect mine. It is a communication with the individual client issue.

So even if 50k people all hit dscan at the same time, there would be no issue at all.


Repeat you are wrong. The difference would be increasing 500 data requests to 50000 data requests within same time period.
500 ping not decreasing the server performance painfuly, but 50000 yes. And this is a two directional data flow and high amount of data exchange.
You want create a continously higher server load with remove local.

And no not just effected on your game client LOL, this is effect on server, man. So, dont talk stupid things.
Does not matter whether you want it or no a server need to send 100.000/sec data to clients or 125.000/s. That's 25% difference and dont forget this means plus inward data processes for the server too.
These Remote Procedure Calls on server would be decreasing and impact game performance as a whole.

Read again and see it.

CCP Atlas: "There is a new 2 second delay in using the directional scanner. This has been done for server performance reasons."

Not client reasons what you trying to talk bullh*t, but server reasons what the CCP developers told.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#287 - 2012-07-08 11:03:37 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Still finding it hilarious how he calls people who live in wormholes "cowards" yet he's spent fourteen pages crying his eyes out desperate for CCP to do something about the AWAY FROM KEYBOARD players who scare him so badly that he instantly warps to a POS/Station and refuses to come out.

Taking advantage of a poorly designed game mechanic to exploit players with almost no effort or danger on your part is not only cowardly, it is borderline game exploit. It's not cowardly at all to take steps to stay safe.

I think there should be a way to find cloakers, not easy obviously, but possible. Anyone who cloaks and walks away from their computer should be facing danger too.

And please guys, can you clip your gigantic quotenoughts?


How is it exploiting or taking advantage of other players when I am not even at the computer?

Even if it was blatant manipulation of other players... since when is that a "borderline game exploit"? This is EVE Online, last time I checked. The meta-game, threats, lies, backstabbing, etc is the bread and butter of this game. You're playing the wrong game if you can't deal with that.

As for "anyone who cloaks and walks away from their computer should be facing danger too"... why? They are absolutely incapable of doing anything, so why should you be able to kill them? Should people who pos up and go afk for an hour be facing danger too? What about people who dock and go afk?

There are dudez in ur system, they may be out for you or they may be walking their dog. Deal with it.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#288 - 2012-07-08 16:51:59 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
TravelBuoy wrote:
[quote=Corina Jarr][quote=TravelBuoy][stuff from before]

No you are wrong and talkin bullsh*t. The CCP guys give to us good argumenst for this.
The 2 second delay dont count because not all players hit the dscan button in same time.


Please read. The reason for the change was not overall lag. There was lag between the time you would hit the dscan button and the time you would get the results because you were spamming the button. This only effected you. Say you were spamming the button and cause lag for yourself. I go and hit dscan, and I get my results near instantly, because your lag in this case does not effect mine. It is a communication with the individual client issue.

So even if 50k people all hit dscan at the same time, there would be no issue at all.


Repeat you are wrong. The difference would be increasing 500 data requests to 50000 data requests within same time period.
500 ping not decreasing the server performance painfuly, but 50000 yes. And this is a two directional data flow and high amount of data exchange.
You want create a continously higher server load with remove local.

And no not just effected on your game client LOL, this is effect on server, man. So, dont talk stupid things.
Does not matter whether you want it or no a server need to send 100.000/sec data to clients or 125.000/s. That's 25% difference and dont forget this means plus inward data processes for the server too.
These Remote Procedure Calls on server would be decreasing and impact game performance as a whole.

Read again and see it.

CCP Atlas: "There is a new 2 second delay in using the directional scanner. This has been done for server performance reasons."

Not client reasons what you trying to talk bullh*t, but server reasons what the CCP developers told.

There are never 50k folks in null, there are barely 50k people online in all of EVE right now.

That number would maybe be 15-20k, spread out across two seconds. That means the potential ping increase would be about 10. Big whoop. A 10ms increase in the time it takes for the server to communicate to the clients. That sure is the end of the world. And thats only if all of them are undocked and doing activities that requires them to use dscan (if they even care).

And server lag in speaking to an individual client is still a server issue. Just one that doesn't effect anyone else.
Hun Jakuza
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2012-07-08 17:10:50 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
...



Wow. Another smart guy who know everything better than CCP developers.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#290 - 2012-07-08 17:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
...



Wow. Another smart guy who know everything better than CCP developers.

Where did I even claim to know anything about development?

All I have been saying is that little quote doesn't tell the whole story, or even a bit of the story. Other than there were issues with performance when people would spam dscan. Which is as vague as saying, there was an issue with my car when I drive it.


Something similar happens when you spam warp. It doesn't respond very reliably.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#291 - 2012-07-09 07:55:04 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
...



Wow. Another smart guy who know everything better than CCP developers.


Find me a post where the CCP developers have said DScan would be "giant lag generator". Hint: You can't. The only post in which they've mentioned it was when the directional scan was instant, and even that only references a very vague "performance issue" - which is not necessarily server-crippling lag, it could (and probably was, in that specific case) client side issues
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2012-07-09 10:14:27 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Even if it was blatant manipulation of other players... since when is that a "borderline game exploit"? This is EVE Online, last time I checked. The meta-game, threats, lies, backstabbing, etc is the bread and butter of this game. You're playing the wrong game if you can't deal with that.

Correction: the bread and butter of EVE is the metagame THAT YOU WORK FOR.

TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Should people who pos up and go afk for an hour be facing danger too?

They might not face danger for an hour, but the POS they're in faces danger. And people who dock can be camped, thus not allowing them to leave.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#293 - 2012-07-09 12:25:03 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Even if it was blatant manipulation of other players... since when is that a "borderline game exploit"? This is EVE Online, last time I checked. The meta-game, threats, lies, backstabbing, etc is the bread and butter of this game. You're playing the wrong game if you can't deal with that.

Correction: the bread and butter of EVE is the metagame THAT YOU WORK FOR.


The amount of effort meta-gaming takes is irrelevant, it still isn't an exploit. Never has been, never will be.

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Should people who pos up and go afk for an hour be facing danger too?

They might not face danger for an hour, but the POS they're in faces danger. And people who dock can be camped, thus not allowing them to leave.


Oh please, you can sit in a pos perfectly safe for well over 24 hours with absolutely no threat to yourself at all. Where are your cries for the ability to kill people in pos shields?

And camping a station? Hah. That's hardly comparable to being able to outright kill players who are AFK, since... well you know, you can't kill them while they're afk. They have to come back and start playing.

And if you can camp a station why can't you properly shut down a system and prevent/catch cloakies? Get yourself some friends and sit on and bubble gates.

Face it bro, you can't just have an "i-win" button against cloakers, ccp will NEVER give you one. Dry your tears and move on.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2012-07-10 00:00:08 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Fun fact: Riboka, and Untouchable Heart have lost all credibility in this forum, so now the poster turns to his 3rd alt Travelbuoy (read early posts to convince yourself). The tell tale bad english grammar (poster is not english speaker) gives him away.

-This has been a public service announcement.

You still making ad hominem attacks on people and claiming they are making ad hominem attacks on you?


I fail to follow your logic Glitter.
calling someone an idiot is adhominiem

Pointing out that someone is using alts to post isn't.
pointing out that you also have a personal bone to pick with me because I chastised your aggressive posting in another thread also isn't adhominem arguement.

I think you seem reasonable. So hear me when I say I don't make anything personal. I just don't like to to see aggressive posters go unfettered.
Hun Jakuza
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2012-07-10 20:21:10 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Fun fact: Riboka, and Untouchable Heart have lost all credibility in this forum, so now the poster turns to his 3rd alt Travelbuoy (read early posts to convince yourself). The tell tale bad english grammar (poster is not english speaker) gives him away.

-This has been a public service announcement.

You still making ad hominem attacks on people and claiming they are making ad hominem attacks on you?


I fail to follow your logic Glitter.
calling someone an idiot is adhominiem

Pointing out that someone is using alts to post isn't.
pointing out that you also have a personal bone to pick with me because I chastised your aggressive posting in another thread also isn't adhominem arguement.

I think you seem reasonable. So hear me when I say I don't make anything personal. I just don't like to to see aggressive posters go unfettered.


"Pointing out that someone is using alts to post isn't."

Posted by a geek alt like you. RotFL
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#296 - 2012-07-10 21:09:44 UTC
Hun Jakuza wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Fun fact: Riboka, and Untouchable Heart have lost all credibility in this forum, so now the poster turns to his 3rd alt Travelbuoy (read early posts to convince yourself). The tell tale bad english grammar (poster is not english speaker) gives him away.

-This has been a public service announcement.

You still making ad hominem attacks on people and claiming they are making ad hominem attacks on you?


I fail to follow your logic Glitter.
calling someone an idiot is adhominiem

Pointing out that someone is using alts to post isn't.
pointing out that you also have a personal bone to pick with me because I chastised your aggressive posting in another thread also isn't adhominem arguement.

I think you seem reasonable. So hear me when I say I don't make anything personal. I just don't like to to see aggressive posters go unfettered.


"Pointing out that someone is using alts to post isn't."

Posted by a geek alt like you. RotFL

In before "constructive posts only please".
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2012-07-30 07:55:13 UTC
Make harder for life for cloaker fags in EVE.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#298 - 2012-07-31 12:43:09 UTC
Did you really just come back to this topic 20 days after its last post and do nothing but spew disgusting bigotry? I think you need a time out.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#299 - 2012-07-31 14:33:29 UTC
Nooooo it was supposed to die...Sad
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#300 - 2012-07-31 16:53:40 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Nooooo it was supposed to die...Sad



Girls you need cry harder.