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[Proposal] A different solution to self destruct mechanics.
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QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#1 - 2012-07-03 11:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
The reason this thread was created was because my proposal is significantly different from the other thread here on the same subject.

I, like many others in eve online, hate seeing caps or supercaps SDing and depriving us of our delicious killmails. So here is my proposal for the changes to SD mechanics.

1. Killmails or loss mails are always generated.

This means that anyone who SDs their cap inside of a force field will receive a loss mail. It also means that the main reason to self destruct will be taken away and most of the people who SD will no longer be using this cheap tactic as a means of denying killmails.


2. Self destruct will not work if you have a ship in your SMA of your.

This applies to everything. If you have an orca, carrier, rorq, or any other ship with an SMA, you can not initate self destruct until you jetison these ships in to space.

3. You can not eject from a ship, or board another ship that has had its self destuct mechanism initiated.

I have personally seen someone initiate self destruct on his ship, then eject from his ship and initiate self destruct on several other ships that were ejected.

4.(Optional) Insurance will no longer payout for a self destructed ship.

Lets face it. There is not a single company out there that will pay out on a purposefully breached contract. IE: Life insurance doesnt pay out if you commit suicide. Car insurance doesnt pay out if you blow up your own car. (And get caught) So you should not get money for destroying your own ship.

5. (Optional) All offensive modules turn off, and your ship stops moving when you initiate self destruct on your ship.

Going down like a coward should not entail you the ability to get more kills or the ability to run away.


Well there it is in a very convoluted nutshell. Almost everyone who has seen a ship explode in10 percent structure only to realize that no killmail was generated can and will agree with me here. Self destruct mechanics as they are, are broken. I understand the need for this to happen, IE so that you dont get griefed for 4 hours as you wait for someone to destroy your ship. But there should be penalties for taking this route as well.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#2 - 2012-07-03 16:35:09 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
1. Killmails or loss mails are always generated.

I'd say treat it like Concord: if you're self-destructing and someone else has any form of aggression on you, they get on the killmail.
QT McWhiskers wrote:
2. Self destruct will not work if you have a ship in your SMA

I completely disagree here. SD should primarily be a means of denying loot. You shouldn't have to eject an expensive ship from your carrier while self-destructing to deny pirates the modules fitted on that carrier. It should destroy all ships, cargo, and fittings.
QT McWhiskers wrote:
3. You can not eject from a ship, or board another ship that has had its self destuct mechanism initiated.

I see no point in this rule.

QT McWhiskers wrote:
4.(Optional) Insurance will no longer payout for a self destructed ship.

If you self destruct in combat, you obviously expected to lose the ship anyway. I'd say insurance should treat it as if you lost it in combat...after all, with the killmail being generated the only reason to SD is to screw pirates out of the loot. This would mean that in order to get payment for a self-destructed ship, you would also have to generate a lossmail that would turn up on an API-verified killboard. Presto, balance :)

QT McWhiskers wrote:
5. (Optional) All offensive modules turn off, and your ship stops moving when you initiate self destruct on your ship. Going down like a coward should not entail you the ability to get more kills or the ability to run away.

It's not going down like a coward to deny loot. Just fix the killmail system and most of this behavior goes away.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#3 - 2012-07-03 18:21:37 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I completely disagree here. SD should primarily be a means of denying loot. You shouldn't have to eject an expensive ship from your carrier while self-destructing to deny pirates the modules fitted on that carrier. It should destroy all ships, cargo, and fittings.

I like the idea of self destructing to destroy loot, rather than just a way to get out of lossmails. I don't know if self destructing should destroy all the loot but it should destroy more than just blowing up naturally.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-07-06 22:02:54 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I completely disagree here. SD should primarily be a means of denying loot. You shouldn't have to eject an expensive ship from your carrier while self-destructing to deny pirates the modules fitted on that carrier. It should destroy all ships, cargo, and fittings.

I like the idea of self destructing to destroy loot, rather than just a way to get out of lossmails. I don't know if self destructing should destroy all the loot but it should destroy more than just blowing up naturally.



Not only should destroy all the loot but also generate some wave of dmg surrounding the ship SDing.

I'm actually more for the idea that if you can't kill something you shouldn't cry about it on forums but man up and move on.

brb
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#5 - 2012-07-07 00:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Not only should destroy all the loot but also generate some wave of dmg surrounding the ship SDing.


Self destructing on the Jita undock would be a lot more fun...

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
I'm actually more for the idea that if you can't kill something you shouldn't cry about it on forums but man up and move on.


It's not a matter of not being able to kill something, it's a matter of not being able to destroy it before an arbitrary timer runs out...at which point you do not get credit for the kill even though the ship was destroyed as a direct result of your aggression. If you CAN'T kill it, why is it self destructing?

When they added implants to pod killmails, several members of CCP made statements on the importance of killmails in the culture of Eve: they're used to determine the outcome of war, they're used to evaluated potential mercenaries, and they're used for plain old bragging rights. The stated intent was to make the killmail system reflect monetary damages more accurately. The ability to prevent a killmail being generated just by surviving for 120 seconds doesn't fit with all that.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-07 07:21:06 UTC
OP, you might as well be removing self destructing.

You mentioned capital ships specifically. Maybe the destruct timer is simply too short for capital ships, and makes it too easy to destruct them before an attack finishes them? On that note, it is perhaps too long for frigates, as a dying frigate (even a slowly dying frigate) almost never has a chance to self destruct.

So howabout self destruct timer be based on size of ship, and leave everything else about them the same? I think that using self destruct to deny a killmail should be possible, as long as the person who self destructs is denied insurance, and the gankers have a reasonable amount of time to finish off the ship.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."