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Highsec vs 0.0 - enough is enough, time to add some risk to the real carebears!

Author
drdxie
#181 - 2012-07-06 23:00:31 UTC
TotalCareBear wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:


Oh ya! Totally advantages to Nul sec! The moon redistribution really helped all the alliances down south! How about the Anom changes? Those certainly made nul-sec better! And the changes to jump bridges! That put us WAY a head.

You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing.

So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system.

Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.


Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion.

Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring.

The idea that boosting every 0.0 region will somehow make hordes of highsec players run to 0.0 and that is somehow going to create new dynamic alliances that are willing to take new space... is well naive. I would understand if you argued for more economic inequality between the regions, creating more bottlenecks, creating dynamic markets that make different regions boom & bust during different times, but I guess the 99% won't accept that. 99% of the 0.0 bears, that is.


Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#182 - 2012-07-06 23:06:20 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.


man oh man you must really think that bombs were "nerfed"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#183 - 2012-07-06 23:07:09 UTC
TotalCareBear wrote:


Second Problem: Defensive 0.0 mechanics.

Someone like NC. has like 100 tech moons. That is only tech moons. To assault them you need a mega blob. Now once you have that megablob, all those cynojammers/sov mechanics/TCU/station/whatever destroy the desire of the attacking side. The only exceptions, are renter alliances falling out of grace with their masters. Even if you win vs a fail alliance, you end up with them being able to evacuate vast majority of their assets.

Solution: Drastically nerf every single defensive feature, one single reinforce timer for every single item in the system/constellation. Once a station changes hands, every single item in the station is is irreversably purged.


Third Problem: Supercaps.

Too many supercaps, too few die. This is a problem.

Solution: Make all supercaps globally view able on galaxy map, make all supercaps warpable beacons on overview, no supercapital will disappear in space when logged off(you have to use pos), start banning supercapital account sharing.

Fourth Problem: Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters.

These make alliance logistics too easy.

Solution: Jump Freighters have a cooldown period of 5h, once they unload their cargo - no jumps until the timer is up. Jump Bridges should not allow to carry non-ammo cargo(like trying to put a Iteron V full of trit into a carrier.)

Lots of highsec players are getting tired of this constant goon/[enter alliance here] spam: "NERF HIGHSEC, RISK VS REWARD." Time to look at the real carebears - the 0.0 alliances - and start adding some risk to their game. Once all these changes have been made, we can have a serious discussion on lvl4/hulks in highsec.



One reinforce timer on your biggest asset in a system all other assets add ehp or other strategic value to that one asset. This would mean only one thing needs to be attacked or defended and if it goes down it makes everything else easier to attack or harder to defend giving more onus on the value of the higher end assets.



Titans yes, supers no. Titans are like jump bridges and cynos and therefore should be on the map as with cynos even if not logged in. This increases risk to deploying or using titans as they can be seen and then attacked.

Titans and supers should have upkeep costs and "maintenance" due to breakage. Randomly a set value over a random time for a double variable random scale at ANYTIME during a day. Big ships, they break, need to be repaired just as bombers/aircraft or weaponry in war often have to turn back due to maintenance issues. Logistically it creates a mess. This is a good thing imo.

To repair you must buy or build a "gantry" simillar to the POCO gantry that will be so large that it will only fit into freighters or JFs, it must be anchored, outside of a POS shields at a certain distance, in space beside the super and will be visible like any other beacon/gantry to all of local as a warpable object. Like the gantry Capital components must be dropped in and the repair takes X amount of time thereafter. Breakage appears, even while in use, as total heat damage on modules as well as shields, armor or structure hps, cap/shield recharge rates or total cap amounts as well as jump drive LY distance travel or fuel requirements. Each breakage corresponds to its subsequent Capital component item to be used in the repair. Much like Nanite paste and the amounts used are relative to the damage incurred, same with repair times.

Breakage while in use in fleets, or waiting around, etc. Can change the field of battle as a random variable due to when it can occur. This means that natural mechanical failure rates must be taken into account for a super/titan fleet as they are in RL for all military assets deployed or even in reserve. You may HAVE 10 supers to field but only 8 may be able to actually fight due to 2 having mechanical failures of some kind. And as this will affect both attackers and defenders its an added variable to the tactical considerations. It also creates more usage and cost for supers and titans to holders of such meaning they again can become alliance or large corp assets rather than individual assets simply due to increased maintenance costs. This means that each super or titan can incur its own costs yet again perhaps in a year or two of normal operations, or months? again depending on the balancing of the decay rates of thee large ships due to the rigors of being constantly out in space at all times. This means that if someone doesnt log in or use a super its not necessarily worth HAVING a super as you have to pay for it or when you want to use it you have to spend billions to fix it again. Can you say bye bye ratting super botters? Your super is now vulnerable to anyone cuz it broke and itll take you at LEAST several hours to fix it and its just sitting there, cant defend it? Kiss it bye bye.


JF cooldown? That Ill have to say HELL NO!! It takes long enough to jump **** around in it if your anywhere deep in null from high sec. Forcing a JF pilot to wait literally 10 hours for a 2 jump, about avg into null, is ridiculous for logistics and turns whats already an annoyance into a full days affairs. So really thats dumb. Anyone that has the time to spend an entire day sure, but the vast majority of Eve doesnt have that time. And say your making more than one trip. Now suddenly if your forced to make 3 cyno jumps thats 15 hours ONE way!! Say you got 3 or even 4 trips worth of stuff? Thats literally a week. I would cease all null sec activities if this ever was even considered and sell my jf and literally never look back.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2012-07-06 23:08:41 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable


nerf teamwork!!!

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

TotalCareBear
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2012-07-06 23:10:58 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable


nerf teamwork!!!


Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork?

Maybe complete removal is a overkill.

But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2012-07-06 23:13:23 UTC
TotalCareBear wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable


nerf teamwork!!!


Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork?

Maybe complete removal is a overkill.

But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start.


i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

TotalCareBear
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2012-07-06 23:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TotalCareBear
Richard Desturned wrote:
TotalCareBear wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable


nerf teamwork!!!


Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork?

Maybe complete removal is a overkill.

But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start.


i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space


I said in that topic that I already have a carrier and i actively use it(for example an officer spawn). You think I am using that in highsec? I never said anything about highsec supercarrier.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#188 - 2012-07-06 23:21:23 UTC
TotalCareBear wrote:
I said in that topic that I already have a carrier and i actively use it(for example officer spawn). You think I am using that in highsec? I never said anything about highsec supercarrier.


so wait you post a thread about "nullbears" when you literally want a special dockable supercarrier for ratting?

I've literally never seen an officer spawn because literally the only PvE I do involves buying escalation/complex bookmarks from newbies and running them for a 50% split, and I do maybe 2-3 in a given month before having enough of watching grey lines turn red

yet you're the one calling everyone ~nullbears~

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2012-07-06 23:25:04 UTC
I mean seriously nullsec has enough of an activity issue as it is and people talk about removing local because nullsec is Too Easy (or too hard for you because you can't get easy kills on people who are actually awake and observant)

let's face it removing local would be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing nullsec get actual activity outside of fleets

literally anybody who has actually lived in nullsec without depending on hisec PvE alts knows this

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2012-07-06 23:25:22 UTC
TotalCareBear wrote:
Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion.

But it is. Null, esp. sov space is not hisec. In terms of how will it affect people who lived there. In hisec, you have CONCORD to provide a safety net that indirectly affects how 'safe' living in hisec is. You remove CONCORD, you'll remove that safety net. In nullsec, that safety net is provided by a collective effort from people and it is directly attached to local channel.

Let's say a hypothetical scenario, local is gone in nullsec space. What do you think would happen? most people would probably stop doing pve stuff in null and move their iskmaking alts to a safer place, some would probably switch to nullified T3s and do less risky stuff, some minority would probably gamble their ships or just use the cheapest thing they can fly and continue.

In the end, less people in nullsec. Far less incentives to invade other alliances space other than moon goos, even when this is the main goal for conflict; alliances, big and small would have a hard time keeping morale high since there are little 'rewards' to give to their members so they can stick around in null. That's from the sov owners perspective (in which you called "nullbears"), how about the hunters perspective? It's going to be harder to find targets, cause, well, no one's around, it's going to be harder to skim down pipes and quickly asess what is in this system and move on to the next, thus, less motivation to roam around and hunt stuff. If this is not nerfing 0.0 to oblivion, I don't know what is.

TotalCareBear wrote:

Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring.

First, you got your numbers wrong. Goons balance sheet are open to public, do your research first. Second, "attacking north" have been done before, and it being boring is not one of the cause of the result.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2012-07-06 23:32:29 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.

Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you?

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#192 - 2012-07-06 23:35:38 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
drdxie wrote:
Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.

Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you?

It seems now bombs of the same type blow themselves up.

CCP said they'll fix it on monday. Hurry up, I want to bomb the 319 undock.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2012-07-06 23:38:53 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
drdxie wrote:
Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.

Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you?

It seems now bombs of the same type blow themselves up.

CCP said they'll fix it on monday. Hurry up, I want to bomb the 319 undock.

Yep. Bombing squads are on vacation til Monday it seems Cool

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2012-07-07 00:08:17 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
I mean seriously nullsec has enough of an activity issue as it is and people talk about removing local because nullsec is Too Easy (or too hard for you because you can't get easy kills on people who are actually awake and observant)

let's face it removing local would be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing nullsec get actual activity outside of fleets

literally anybody who has actually lived in nullsec without depending on hisec PvE alts knows this

I would go back to null if local was removed. Of course, as always, I have been for any changes to make null more vibrant, like industry for one. But there will always be players who have grown to rely on local for every aspect of how they play the game, the thought of it being removed sends them directly into a fetal position crying out for mommy.

No amount of convincing or mechanical changes will make them embrace the removal of local. These players are simply cowards.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#195 - 2012-07-07 04:42:27 UTC
Nerf highsec.

Remove local from nullsec.


There, now they both suck to pve in. EVE is balanced.
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#196 - 2012-07-07 05:34:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec


99% of people in EVE use NPC corps as shields in game. Why should the forums be any different?
Herr Hammer Draken
#197 - 2012-07-07 06:41:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
TotalCareBear wrote:


How many times, do I have to reply to these...

Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0.

And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts.


Yet I still kill people trying to ship goods and mine in 0.0


That is because stupid is as stupid does. Highsec, null sec makes no diffrence on a person ability to be stupid.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"

The Protato
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#198 - 2012-07-07 10:06:32 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
The Protato wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
reinforce their POS, reinforce their station, bring a spy into one of their corps, camp a gate


Get blobbed

bring a fleet


Sorry, I thought you were talking about how easy it was to PVP in nullsec? And what if we don't have a fleet big enough to drop 500 caps and supercaps on the supercaps that've been dropped on us?
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-07-07 10:23:59 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
TotalCareBear wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable


nerf teamwork!!!


Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork?

Maybe complete removal is a overkill.

But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start.


i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space




You know mate your right, its bloody terrible, when someone from a different sec zone starts telling you how it should work in yours........, I feel for you.....


Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk

Spectre80
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#200 - 2012-07-07 10:47:05 UTC
goons are real carebears of eve that is a fact. also they are schoolyard bullies, the annoying guy who you know at work who tries to rile you up, and a rude guy in bar who picks a fight with you for no reason. that is what goons are.