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Best skills to incress my DPS - CNR
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Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#1 - 2012-07-06 21:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Moriem
Morning, Afternoon, Evening, and late night pod players from all over the world.

I'm looking at making my CNR better with it's ability to do missions. I have it semi faction fitted right now (well just some BCS) and can tank just about anything from level 4's. With out posting a lot of details I currently run with about 786.6DPS (119.5 Drones, 667.4 Missiles).

I currently have the following skills and levels:
Caldari Battleship 3
Cruise Missiles 5
Guided Missile Precision 4
Cruise Missile Specialization 4
Missile Bombardment 2
Missile Launcher Operation 5
Missile Projection 4
Rapid Launch 4
Target Navigation 5
Warhead Upgrades 4

I got the following implants:
CM-605
RL-1003

Ship set up:
High
Cruise Missile Launcher II x7
Drone Link Augmentor I
Med
Shield Hardener Tech II (change for different missions) x3
Large Shield Extender II x2
Target Painter II
Low
Caldari BCS x3
BSC II x1 (waiting on ISK to upgrade to 4th faction)
Shield Power Relay II
Rig
Large Core Defense Field Purger I x3

I'm looking to get my dps higher via skills and gear but not sure where I should be looking that would be the best use of my time and ISK. I also heard somewhere that CNR's can do solo level 5's. This true and if so what should I be looking into fitting and skill levels?

I don't normally post here but I need some more personal help than trying to do everything on my own. My ex boyfriend dose not play any more and we are not on speaking terms and I don't know anyone else who plays.

~bows~ thank you in advance for helping me in anyway. ^_^
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#2 - 2012-07-06 21:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CorInaXeraL
Never discount that primary battleship skill. Even though, for the CNR, it's +velocity/fire rate, that firing rate translates into more damage done over a course of time, and the velocity will help out with closing gaps between you and your target. The rest will be support skills.

I'm not a strong missiley-type, but I do know that with gunnery, support skills maxed out makes a massive difference. I suspect that will be the case for missiles as well, and that includes skills impacting upgrades (BCUs) and mods like your target painter.

I'm sure, much like guns, there's tips and tricks to boost DPS via clever piloting, but I'm not quite sure what those are.

Also, I do know there's very strong rigs and implants you can use that are missile-oriented, but that might require you look at your tank with the current rigs and see if you can support dropping a few. Upgrading which implants you can use (what is your current cybernetics level) can help push to higher quality implants.



Ninja-edit

Also, look at drone skills. Even though drones are a minor contributor when compared to pure drone-boats, having some sturdy skills (about 3.5mil is the 'good' average, if I recall) can make a big difference too.
Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#3 - 2012-07-06 21:54:38 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Never discount that primary battleship skill. Even though, for the CNR, it's +velocity/fire rate, that firing rate translates into more damage done over a course of time, and the velocity will help out with closing gaps between you and your target. The rest will be support skills.

I'm not a strong missiley-type, but I do know that with gunnery, support skills maxed out makes a massive difference. I suspect that will be the case for missiles as well, and that includes skills impacting upgrades (BCUs) and mods like your target painter.

I'm sure, much like guns, there's tips and tricks to boost DPS via clever piloting, but I'm not quite sure what those are.

Also, I do know there's very strong rigs and implants you can use that are missile-oriented, but that might require you look at your tank with the current rigs and see if you can support dropping a few. Upgrading which implants you can use (what is your current cybernetics level) can help push to higher quality implants.


Thank you for your time and a well thought our response to my questions. Even though you didn't have exactly the right information it still gives me more to think about and play around with.

I already have been currently training the next level of my battle ship skill because of the fire rate so I'm happy that I had/has that right and not wasting skill training time.

As for my support skills, most of them are already level 4 (with the exception of a couple), but they will be put on the list for training.

Again thank you for the response. This is why I was not afraid to post here. Difference in the game and the community versus other MMO's is staggering with the quality of people and now helpful others are, even in the forms here ;p
Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#4 - 2012-07-06 21:56:41 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Ninja-edit

Also, look at drone skills. Even though drones are a minor contributor when compared to pure drone-boats, having some sturdy skills (about 3.5mil is the 'good' average, if I recall) can make a big difference too.


Ninja response ;p

Drones are 1.5million right now. I'll put that in my list of things to explore for upgrades. I do use tech 2 mission damage ones. But I guess they could be even better.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#5 - 2012-07-06 21:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CorInaXeraL
Moriem wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Never discount that primary battleship skill. Even though, for the CNR, it's +velocity/fire rate, that firing rate translates into more damage done over a course of time, and the velocity will help out with closing gaps between you and your target. The rest will be support skills.

I'm not a strong missiley-type, but I do know that with gunnery, support skills maxed out makes a massive difference. I suspect that will be the case for missiles as well, and that includes skills impacting upgrades (BCUs) and mods like your target painter.

I'm sure, much like guns, there's tips and tricks to boost DPS via clever piloting, but I'm not quite sure what those are.

Also, I do know there's very strong rigs and implants you can use that are missile-oriented, but that might require you look at your tank with the current rigs and see if you can support dropping a few. Upgrading which implants you can use (what is your current cybernetics level) can help push to higher quality implants.


Thank you for your time and a well thought our response to my questions. Even though you didn't have exactly the right information it still gives me more to think about and play around with.

I already have been currently training the next level of my battle ship skill because of the fire rate so I'm happy that I had/has that right and not wasting skill training time.

As for my support skills, most of them are already level 4 (with the exception of a couple), but they will be put on the list for training.

Again thank you for the response. This is why I was not afraid to post here. Difference in the game and the community versus other MMO's is staggering with the quality of people and now helpful others are, even in the forms here ;p




Sometimes we can be harsh, though. Sometimes.


I'll probably end up toying about with a few things tonight, dusting off some missile skills and whatnot. If I stumble across anything ground-breaking, I'll be sure to post. I would recommend looking at the ship-fitting threads and see if there's some optimal CNR fits floating around that you can work and toy around with. I'll probably toy with one myself, too, since it's been...years since I touched a CNR (I enjoy my Machariel).

The upside to getting that battleship skill to 5 is also working towards the Marauder. The Golem, if I recall, is a beastly missile boat for PVE use and not to be taken lightly.



Moriem wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Ninja-edit

Also, look at drone skills. Even though drones are a minor contributor when compared to pure drone-boats, having some sturdy skills (about 3.5mil is the 'good' average, if I recall) can make a big difference too.


Ninja response ;p

Drones are 1.5million right now. I'll put that in my list of things to explore for upgrades. I do use tech 2 mission damage ones. But I guess they could be even better.



The drone support skills are, much like all things, key. Faster speed=more time on target, better tracking=better hits, better damage=...better damage... Durability=less scrap metal in space that formerly belonged to you.... You get the picture. :Big smile
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-07-07 02:46:48 UTC
Missile Bombardment and Caldari Battleship to at least 4 for sure. Ideally 5, but by then you may have different priorities.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2012-07-07 07:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
missile launcher rigging, fit some rigors! while they won't straight up increase your dps number they will improve your hit quality. and will let you use fury missiles very effectively on everything bigger than a cruiser.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_Navy_Issue_%28Fitting%29#Navy_Raven_a_la_Liang (overall the page is getting pretty dated but that fitting is still good)

and as others said caldari bs 4 would be the biggest dps increase in relation to time that you should be able to get right now.

if you haven't already get sentry drone skills and carry 3x sentry drones and 5x light drones. 3x Sentries will do about the same dps as 5x mediums, but they won't lose dps to travel time.

oh yea and missile bombardment shouldn't really affect the navy raven at all, even at 0 you should be able to hit out to lock range.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Velarra
#8 - 2012-07-07 17:52:07 UTC
As others have mentioned Support skills & Ship Skill will see you well.
In addition you may want to look at the following hard wirings, some of which you already have. Given that they further the effects of support skills you may want to increase them to a degree your budget feels comfortable with. Budget no issue: 5% or 6%'s.

CM-60?
GP-80?
TN-90?
RL-100?

You may likewise want to consider Biology, & using Synth Crash.

You don't mention drone skills. Drones will and can be very helpful support. Tech 2 Lights, Mediums & Sentry in the case of CNR. At the very least, lights & mediums.
Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#9 - 2012-07-07 18:42:04 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:
Missile Bombardment and Caldari Battleship to at least 4 for sure. Ideally 5, but by then you may have different priorities.


Caldari Battle Ship is level 4 now, and plans to get it to level 5 after some other improvements.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
missile launcher rigging, fit some rigors! while they won't straight up increase your dps number they will improve your hit quality. and will let you use fury missiles very effectively on everything bigger than a cruiser.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_Navy_Issue_%28Fitting%29#Navy_Raven_a_la_Liang (overall the page is getting pretty dated but that fitting is still good)

and as others said caldari bs 4 would be the biggest dps increase in relation to time that you should be able to get right now.

if you haven't already get sentry drone skills and carry 3x sentry drones and 5x light drones. 3x Sentries will do about the same dps as 5x mediums, but they won't lose dps to travel time.

oh yea and missile bombardment shouldn't really affect the navy raven at all, even at 0 you should be able to hit out to lock range.


Nice link. As for the fittings on the ship it's self, I'm a bit concerned with defense dropping all three of my shield rigs and the power relay on the low slot. I'll have to take a peek at what the overall improvement will be, before fitting in those rigs. On the other hand I do see the shield booster+Cap booster so maybe might work.

Like I said above, BS4 is level 4 and plans to get it to level 5.

As for the drones. I'm not sure if this would be the best use of my time right now, but then again I'm not very good at this game lol. I'll have to play around with skills but I didn't think that 3xsentry T2 would be better than 5x medium T2, I'll look closer into this.

Missile bombardment: Yeah, it's like at the bottom of the list. ;p


Velarra wrote:
As others have mentioned Support skills & Ship Skill will see you well.
In addition you may want to look at the following hard wirings, some of which you already have. Given that they further the effects of support skills you may want to increase them to a degree your budget feels comfortable with. Budget no issue: 5% or 6%'s.

CM-60?
GP-80?
TN-90?
RL-100?

You may likewise want to consider Biology, & using Synth Crash.

You don't mention drone skills. Drones will and can be very helpful support. Tech 2 Lights, Mediums & Sentry in the case of CNR. At the very least, lights & mediums.


I didn't mention drone skills. Sorry about that. I'll put a list of current skills at the bottom here. So i alraedy have CM-6, and RL-100, but I didn't know that the GP-80 and TN-90 would really help over the shield implants I have.
The other implants I have are: SM-705, EM-803, SP-903.

I've never really thought about using consumables for just PvE (and I don't do PvP on any level lol). But I will look more into that today to see the bonus vs cost.

Drone skills:
Ammar Drone Specialization - 3
Caldari Done Specialization - 3
Combat Drone Operation - 4
Drone Durability - 3
Drone Interfacing - 4
Drone Navigation - 4
Drone Sharpshooting - 4
Drones - 5
Gallente Drone Specialization - 4
Heavy Drone Operation - 3
Minmatar Drone Specialization - 3
Scout Drone Operation - 5
Sentry Drone Interfacing - 3

Generally just wanted to say thank you, so much help ^_^ you guys (and girls) are awesome ;p
Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#10 - 2012-07-07 18:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Moriem
@Chainsaw Plankton: I was just in EFT and they are reporting only a gain of +2.8 drone DPS for using 3x T2 sentry drones over 5x Medium T2 assuming all skills are level 5.

24d6h9m34s Training Time for 2.8dps gain, hmmmm not sure. Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Is there some resource I can look that would better explain or list out why using sentry drones would be far better for that much training time?

Edit: That ship fitting is nice, but it is lower dps by 177 (assuming all skills level 5), the flip side to it, is the defense is amazingly better from 168 to 327/415.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2012-07-07 19:36:23 UTC
sentry drones sit still and will continuously apply dps, medium drones have to fly all over the mission to get to their targets and when moving they don't do any dps. the downside is they don't move, so on a mission with travel times they aren't much use. also you will still have to launch your light drones to kill frigs most of the time, unless they spawn pretty far away and then the sentries can deal with them on approach. but yea if you have other stuff to train do that, think of sentries as more of a long term thing, although if you want to fly carriers or gallente ships maybe do them sooner than later.

also a while back ccp nerfed shield recharge on the navy bs, the active burst tank should be much stronger than a passive tank, it does however require a bit more attention.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Moriem
Kodaijin ISC
#12 - 2012-07-07 19:39:21 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentry drones sit still and will continuously apply dps, medium drones have to fly all over the mission to get to their targets and when moving they don't do any dps. the downside is they don't move, so on a mission with travel times they aren't much use. also you will still have to launch your light drones to kill frigs most of the time, unless they spawn pretty far away and then the sentries can deal with them on approach. but yea if you have other stuff to train do that, think of sentries as more of a long term thing, although if you want to fly carriers or gallente ships maybe do them sooner than later.

also a while back ccp nerfed shield recharge on the navy bs, the active burst tank should be much stronger than a passive tank, it does however require a bit more attention.


That makes a lot of sense. I'll put it on the list to train up to level 5 sentry but it's going to be lower on the list for now. In the mean time I'll experiment with using T1 in missions to see how it feels differently combined up with the shield pulsing.

Thank you so much ^_^
Velarra
#13 - 2012-07-07 19:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing will give you extended drone range at the very minimum.

Likewise naturally bare in mind, EFT/pyfa numbers aren't strictly everything. You may want to google around for Rigor Raven style ship fits. Or consider running ships that you switch between like Tengu & your CNR relative to mission parameters, in order to get the best of both. The issue being applied DPS vs. theoretical DPS & travel time to mission site & back to station.


Based purely on *untested* theory craft, - you *may* want to experiment with ewar drones like webbers & painters in conjunction with your shipboard Painter. But really, if you carry no other drones, T2 Light combat drones - Hobgoblin IIs for the scram/disrupt npcs really are a must on MR ships.

Should you ever later consider taking a T1, non faction BS into less secure than HS space, - a Large Smartbomb, a Heavy Neut & EC-300's as well as Warrior II light drones, regardless of the otherwise efficiency of Hobgoblin II's.

Edit: Note, the Smarty, Neut and EC-300's are not for the NPCs who spawn in your site -.^
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-07-08 07:38:02 UTC
Rapid Launch 5 is a no brainer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#15 - 2012-07-08 13:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
I know you said you could tank all the level 4s... but....

Moriem wrote:
Ship set up:
Med
Shield Hardener Tech II (change for different missions) x3
Large Shield Extender II x2
Target Painter II
Low
Shield Power Relay II
Rig
Large Core Defense Field Purger I x3


I can't believe no one mentioned your fit... You're running a passive fit raven!? That is... so bad.

OK, here's a fit that works a lot better. I assume you have the skills to active tank, if you don't, stop training damage skills and train the active tanking skills now.

[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Feel free to swap the drone damage amp out for a Power Diagnostic System II and the PWNAGE (Target Painter) for another hardener if you want a little extra safety. Your current fit is... wow. I can't believe you haven't lost it in level 4s, it is truly terrible.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#16 - 2012-07-08 17:12:23 UTC
Most issues have been covered here by veteran players.
Fits will vary, but for sure the CNR is not meant to be passive fit.

Skills already mentioned:
Rapid Launch V
Warhead Upgrades V
Caldari BS V

Get your 'easy' drone skills to V. And Drone Interfacing V is just a 'must have' skill imo. 20% per level increase is rare in this game. You probably feel like your drones are slow and weak right now. That's because they are slow and weak.

All this training takes time, but at V it is done for life. Try and remember, average skills get average results.


Fit:
Drop the drone unit and put a NOS in that top slot. It is the only mod you can use there, that will actually help save your ship. You dont want your drones out at 60km anyway...you need them close to kill frigs.

I use 3 BCU and 2 Power Diagnostics in my lows. Again, fit choices vary, but this works for me.

As for level V missions... I personally would not attempt a lvl V with a solo CNR. Ever. And I am/was an experienced missioner. (not so much any more)
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-09 10:45:12 UTC
experiment with the Drone Damage link in low, I still need to my self, but I recon it's a better boost than a 4th BCU, when taking stacking penalties in mind.