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Down with Hans The Hat Jagerblitzen, we need a CSM that actually gives a damn

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Author
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#21 - 2012-07-06 19:02:50 UTC
This thread amuses me.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#22 - 2012-07-06 19:07:03 UTC
Remove all CSM. That's something worth supporting...

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-07-06 19:11:56 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Apparently I am simultaneously "the one who ruined Faction Warfare" and also "the one that CCP doesnt listen to cause the CSM is a sham".

Makes perfect sense when you think about it....Roll


Well Hans, Just putting to words what is apparent from all CSM stances on issues. Case in point incarna with Mittani all for incarna prior to it being released. (see his ten ton hammer article regarding Incarna before it was released).

But you can put all of this to light if you came out with a clear A, B C agenda and what you proposed, what you will propose etc. Because as of now you have no one to blame for being what you said you are in your above post. No one to blame but yourself. Com out and be clear and straight forward. Otherwise it is up to guess and theories.

I mean you do plan on revisiting the things you claimed in your 'elect me' thread and compare what happened versus what didnt dont you? dont you?

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#24 - 2012-07-06 19:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Apparently I am simultaneously "the one who ruined Faction Warfare" and also "the one that CCP doesnt listen to cause the CSM is a sham".

Makes perfect sense when you think about it....Roll


Hans has three kinds of comments. This is one of them - he likes this kind of comment so much he's perfectly willing to fail to understand plain English to get to deploy it, which is what he usually must do. Another is "Don't say bad things about CCP! CCP are nice people!" The last is just an attention-getter. If you were to characterize the role of CSM based on what comes out of his mouth, what a CSM does is furiously defend CCP's honor and then shitpost if there's no opportunity for that.

Although due to the OP, he has gone off and made a bunch of useful posts in other threads. Good job! This may be the button to push.

Stalking Mantis is mostly correct, in his first post, but it should still make you uncomfortable that a buffoon like Hans is "the FW guy" in any capacity. When the minutes come out I expect most of his contributions will have been cut out of comment type #3.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-07-06 19:28:08 UTC
In other words Hans.

Give me the standard to compare you doing well versus you doing not so well. So I know that my vote was well placed or if I need it to change next time around. Dont get me wrong I have nothing against you....yet.

The reason I cannot be against you or with you though is you did not highlight what you did etc. what you succeded in what you failed in. Just make it clear for us and then see how you will be judged based on your actions not some tinfoil hat theories.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-07-06 19:39:16 UTC
Instead of pissing and moaning about Hans, why not post constructive material. Help the guy out. Here, this is an example of something useful (hypothetical):

"Hans, when you respond to comments with _____ it gives the impression that _____."


Personally, I don' t like the sarcasm or playing the martyr in some of his posts. I feel that it undermines Hans' status as the player representative to CCP.

That doesn't mean that I am not empathetic to him. I would be torqued off if I was in his position getting bombarded with 'you suck' for no particular reason other than a third party did something that you perceive as bad.

I have seen plenty of logical well thought out posts from Hans. Overall, if we want changes, we need to work with Hans and provide coherent, constructive criticism to CCP.

Waaaah, just isn't going to do it. Neither is cutting Hans off at the knees. On the one hand we want him to relay our ideas to CCP, but on the other, threads like this complain that he isn't fit to represent us. What is CCP to make of that?

Like him or not, he's our CSM so f'ing get behind him if you're serious about wanting your ideas represented.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#27 - 2012-07-06 19:43:49 UTC
Loki Vice wrote:


It might be nice if this campaign ad could spell "Gallente" correctly.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#28 - 2012-07-06 19:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Kuehnelt wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Apparently I am simultaneously "the one who ruined Faction Warfare" and also "the one that CCP doesnt listen to cause the CSM is a sham".

Makes perfect sense when you think about it....Roll


Hans has three kinds of comments. This is one of them - he likes this kind of comment so much he's perfectly willing to fail to understand plain English to get to deploy it, which is what he usually must do. Another is "Don't say bad things about CCP! CCP are nice people!" The last is just an attention-getter. If you were to characterize the role of CSM based on what comes out of his mouth, what a CSM does is furiously defend CCP's honor and then shitpost if there's no opportunity for that.

Although due to the OP, he has gone off and made a bunch of useful posts in other threads. Good job! This may be the button to push.

Stalking Mantis is mostly correct, in his first post, but it should still make you uncomfortable that a buffoon like Hans is "the FW guy" in any capacity. When the minutes come out I expect most of his contributions will have been cut out of comment type #3.


LOL I was simply taking a moment today to scan for other FW threads that I may have missed, and steer the conversations back into the official dev-monitored threads I've been hanging out in. Normally I wouldn't reply to this kind of silliness, but the conflicting reports about me being either completely useless, or completely destructive, just made me laugh. Lol

Anyone is welcome to make goofy pictures containing lulzy fiction about me, but don't be fooled into thinking its the way to get my serious attention. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about the mechanics however, I'm all ears.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#29 - 2012-07-06 19:51:13 UTC
I read all the forums, I read all the CSM minutes, I still have no ideea what Hans sugested, what was accepted or rejected out of those sugestions, etc.

Either I have a reading problem or the guy is a waste of an airplane ticket to Iceland. When you compare him to ppl like Seleene, Mittens, Elise, Meissa, etc, he looks like a kid with a broomstick trying to fight in WW II.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#30 - 2012-07-06 20:03:14 UTC
Lock out wrote:
I read all the forums, I read all the CSM minutes, I still have no idea what Hans suggested, what was accepted or rejected out of those sugestions, etc.

Either I have a reading problem or the guy is a waste of an airplane ticket to Iceland. When you compare him to ppl like Seleene, Mittens, Elise, Meissa, etc, he looks like a kid with a broomstick trying to fight in WW II.


If you've been reading the CSM minutes, we have a serious breach of security - the minutes from the recent summit session haven't even been released yet.

Also, an airplane ticket would most certainly be wasted, as I am not one of the travelling CSM members. What? I did however have quite a discussion with CCP about the feature during the dedicated session, I was able to teleconference and share my concerns and suggestions with the developers.

We're currently in the form of writing up the minutes from the summit, we're already up to over 120 pages covering the proceedings in detail. (historically they've arrived at about 45 pages). There's been a few times in recent weeks that I've been tempted to write up a blog covering what I went over the summit, but the player base in general is best served by the CSM focusing on actually completing the minutes, instead of talking about stuff that'll be in the minutes anyways.

So yes, you're absolutely right, you haven't heard much from me (other than continuing to post in the threads pertaining to the stuff CCP's actually working on) but its because we're knee-deep in the minutes project.

CCP is currently on summer vacation, so there's likely to be a month or so before traction begins again in earnest on the next batch of iterations, so there will be plenty of time for the minutes to come out, for all of you to get a sense for where the feature stands, and to give feedback early with regards to the Winter Expansion.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#31 - 2012-07-06 20:09:29 UTC
I hacked your PC :)

Jk, I was reffering to the summary someone posted on EN24 (Seleene ?) . But yeah didn;t even have a clue CCP is mostly on vacation or that will be a month or so till a new developement cycle starts, you'd prove yourself very useful keeping us up to date with **** like that.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#32 - 2012-07-06 20:27:00 UTC
Lock out wrote:
I hacked your PC :)

Jk, I was reffering to the summary someone posted on EN24 (Seleene ?) . But yeah didn;t even have a clue CCP is mostly on vacation or that will be a month or so till a new developement cycle starts, you'd prove yourself very useful keeping us up to date with **** like that.


Is that not what he just did? Haha.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#33 - 2012-07-06 20:30:07 UTC
Lock out wrote:
I hacked your PC :)

Jk, I was reffering to the summary someone posted on EN24 (Seleene ?) . But yeah didn;t even have a clue CCP is mostly on vacation or that will be a month or so till a new developement cycle starts, you'd prove yourself very useful keeping us up to date with **** like that.



No problem, happy to help. If you ever need to get ahold of me, dont be afraid to send me a convo in-game or an evemail. I'll even give you all my skype name so you can hit me up anytime, I have it on at work and at home:

Hans.Jagerblitzen

Especially when I get busy, like with the minutes project, I may seem a little quiet on the forum front but I always try to make time for anyone that wants to chat about this stuff, most that have approached me can attest to that.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-06 20:59:39 UTC
Jut be more visible on the forums.

My Name is Hans I am trying to push A, B, C and D and this is why. The more visible and clear you are the less threads like this you will get where you are blamed for everything under the sun.

Dont get me wrong I am not against you. I am against silence though. a CSM represantative that is not clear or vocal untill vote time is not a CSM I would want to support.

Be more visible and your plans, actions more visible. We all love minutes but dont let the minutes be the only thing that speaks for you.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#35 - 2012-07-06 21:59:51 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Jut be more visible on the forums.

My Name is Hans I am trying to push A, B, C and D and this is why. The more visible and clear you are the less threads like this you will get where you are blamed for everything under the sun.

Dont get me wrong I am not against you. I am against silence though. a CSM represantative that is not clear or vocal untill vote time is not a CSM I would want to support.

Be more visible and your plans, actions more visible. We all love minutes but dont let the minutes be the only thing that speaks for you.


And I appreciate your understanding. To be honest, I'm not particularly worried about threads like this. There's always going to be a few that refuse to pay attention to what's going on and end up making the type silly claims that were in those pics linked in the OP. (Those that were watching the forums and listening to me know that I endorsed a full reset of the warzone pre-inferno, and took hell from my friends as a result. And contrary to the moneybags stereotype, I actually made a whopping 85,000 LP before the big cashout.)

As far as visibilty goes, I don't know what everyone expects, to be honest. I can't pop up in every single Faction Warfare thread that exists, there's simply too many and the goal should be to have it in as *few* threads as possible anyways, if you want my attention or CCP's attention.

I think what people also don't always understand is that all the time spend posting in the forums, is time taking away from discussing things from CCP, or in the case of the last few weeks, doing my job preparing the minutes. CSM work just pulls you a lot of different ways - and personally I would rather spend my time doing the work where CCP is concerned, than spending my time trying to groom my PR image because people don't read my posts or take the time to convo me if they have questions or concerns.

Getting issues like the plexing bug resolved, and the e-war removal that was release last week, have been recent efforts that speak for themselves in terms of success - these were objectives I was both clear about, and delivered upon. I've also been quite clear about the next set of immediate concerns - chiefly NPC rebalancing, ending all non-combat alt farming, and addressing some of the core motivational issues regarding the plex system. I could make even more threads to reiterate the stuff I've already said about these issues in other threads, but if people aren't reading my posts to begin with it just becomes another waste of time and forum space.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#36 - 2012-07-06 22:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Jut be more visible on the forums.

My Name is Hans I am trying to push A, B, C and D and this is why. The more visible and clear you are the less threads like this you will get where you are blamed for everything under the sun.

Dont get me wrong I am not against you. I am against silence though. a CSM represantative that is not clear or vocal untill vote time is not a CSM I would want to support.

Be more visible and your plans, actions more visible. We all love minutes but dont let the minutes be the only thing that speaks for you.



I like this post until you got to the "we all love minutes" part. The only minutes that were valuable was from csm 5. And the only reason they were valuable was because ccp didn't really read them. Since then all minutes are combed through and warmed over until we end up with 50 pages of mush that tells us pretty much nothing but just repeats some platitudes.

Edit: Bottom line you are right. CSM needs to communicate with players on these forums. Not in townhalls where they give their soundbites. Not in blogs where there is spin and no actual discussion with players.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#37 - 2012-07-06 22:05:55 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
. I've also been quite clear about the next set of immediate concerns - chiefly ...., and addressing some of the core motivational issues regarding the plex system.


What does that last bit mean? Link to a post or something would be fine.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#38 - 2012-07-06 22:17:09 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
. I've also been quite clear about the next set of immediate concerns - chiefly ...., and addressing some of the core motivational issues regarding the plex system.


What does that last bit mean? Link to a post or something would be fine.


Essentially the lack of a reason to defend space, leading to everyone intentionally trading systems for profit, rather than being willing to CONFRONT the enemy and fight them over something. (You know, actually PvPing in FW!! A novel idea.)

This occurs on a plex-by-plex level (farmers just bounce to the next plex if challenged in anyways, and bounce right back and resume later) and a system-by-system level (there is little incentive to hold territory unless you either dock and live there, or you want it purely for the WZ control points.) There just isn't enough meaningful system upgrades to entice people to use the system for any other reason than just cheap LP gear.

And worst of all, if you can't achieve a desireable cash-out level, and the enemy seemingly takes back systems as quickly as you capture them, the combined morale effect eliminates the incentive to invest in the system completely. This is exactly why we're seeing an all-too-predictable turn of events, milita corps joining other militias for better pay.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#39 - 2012-07-06 22:45:39 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
. I've also been quite clear about the next set of immediate concerns - chiefly ...., and addressing some of the core motivational issues regarding the plex system.


What does that last bit mean? Link to a post or something would be fine.


Essentially the lack of a reason to defend space, leading to everyone intentionally trading systems for profit, rather than being willing to CONFRONT the enemy and fight them over something. (You know, actually PvPing in FW!! A novel idea.)

This occurs on a plex-by-plex level (farmers just bounce to the next plex if challenged in anyways, and bounce right back and resume later) and a system-by-system level (there is little incentive to hold territory unless you either dock and live there, or you want it purely for the WZ control points.) There just isn't enough meaningful system upgrades to entice people to use the system for any other reason than just cheap LP gear.


Well I agree on the plex by plex level.

But on the system by system level you seem to contradict yourself. Gaining control of the systems for getting cheap lp gear is a huge reason to control systems. Why do you think we need more reason than the war zone control points?



Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


And worst of all, if you can't achieve a desireable cash-out level, and the enemy seemingly takes back systems as quickly as you capture them, the combined morale effect eliminates the incentive to invest in the system completely. This is exactly why we're seeing an all-too-predictable turn of events, milita corps joining other militias for better pay.


Why do you think joining other militias is bad? I think ccp should just help us identify our allied militias and the problem is solved. Are you surprised that the militias that have the easiest rats to fight in their home system are winning the war and therefore everyone is joining them?


I also don't see anything wrong with the current situation where you upgrade and flip systems in order to cash out in the lp store. It means people actually have to use strategy on when they will flip systems and when they will leave them vulnerable. Instead of just charging ahead like a wild pig and taking every system as soon as they can. More strategy is good not bad.

Its not because we have a low morale that we don't invest in upgrades to a system unless we want to cash out. Its because we are using our brains.

Hans
The only time I heard you talk about this was in relation to Susan Black's horribly biased idea that people should get lp for defensive plexing. You are not actually thinking of proposing that to ccp are you? That idea has come up several times and it gets shot down every time.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#40 - 2012-07-06 23:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
What were those famous words? Yeah, that's it. "Sandbox"

Bah. Large number of great fights nowadays (best thing about this expansion) mixed in with greedy little afk plexing bastards (that turn up everywhere in the Eve universe where easy payouts are to be had). Big smile
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